Update

[[tLD] Optimus Prime]

As a medic, the air hose makes me cry. A lot. With 5 pyros on a team now, it's darn near impossible to uber properly. I've been juggled by a single pyro, i've been blown off the bridge in warpath, i've been blown completly away from my uberee, and instantly roasted when i try to run because of either the lack of falloff damage, or people who grinded to get the backburner.

The medic's blutsauger is now useless when running from a pyro, since the lack of falloff means you take way more damage than you can heal.

I've wasted countless ubers already from having the heavy/demo/soldier floating in the air above me because of 5 pyros juggling him.

In conclusion, i'm not a fan. Maybe i just haven't played pyro enough to appreciate the changes, but i feel like i have almost no chance of survival anymore in a one on one. Maybe a lucky bonesaw crit, but otherwise you have to be outside flamer range and using the needler. Even then the flare gun will set you on fire, and though it's more of an annoyance than a killer.

And yeah, i know they've still got 7 more classes to amp up, but medic has already been covered, and i really don't have any means to counter the pyro. You can't even run anymore, thanks to the backburner...

So i will stand my ground, bonesaw at the ready, pray for a crit, and go out in a blaze (ha! ha!) of glory. COME GET MEH!

[So Uncivilized]

No offense, guys, but:

1) Things are over-pyro'd right now, it will die off.

2) Your complaints are all logically the same ones that can be applied to other classes. Yeah, I pretty much can't just run up to a heavy and not get killed if he sees me. I can't run over stickies and not die. The strengths of the pyro class have changed. Give it some time.

The blutsauger has made my appetite for medics go off the charts because I just can't kill them like I used to; it takes different strategy now.

Frankly, some people have gotten used to stomping around with their pocket medics and laying waste to everyone, and it sounds like they are upset that they can't just dominate everyone like they used to.

[Zman]

[quote="[tLD] Optimus Prime";p="101733"]As a medic, the air hose makes me cry. A lot. With 5 pyros on a team now, it's darn near impossible to uber properly. I've been juggled by a single pyro, i've been blown off the bridge in warpath, i've been blown completly away from my uberee, and instantly roasted when i try to run because of either the lack of falloff damage, or people who grinded to get the backburner.

The medic's blutsauger is now useless when running from a pyro, since the lack of falloff means you take way more damage than you can heal.

I've wasted countless ubers already from having the heavy/demo/soldier floating in the air above me because of 5 pyros juggling him.

In conclusion, i'm not a fan. Maybe i just haven't played pyro enough to appreciate the changes, but i feel like i have almost no chance of survival anymore in a one on one. Maybe a lucky bonesaw crit, but otherwise you have to be outside flamer range and using the needler. Even then the flare gun will set you on fire, and though it's more of an annoyance than a killer.

And yeah, i know they've still got 7 more classes to amp up, but medic has already been covered, and i really don't have any means to counter the pyro. You can't even run anymore, thanks to the backburner...

So i will stand my ground, bonesaw at the ready, pray for a crit, and go out in a blaze (ha! ha!) of glory. COME GET MEH![/quote]

Well as a medic I dont think your supposed to have defense against a pyro your supposed to be one of the weaker classes

[Nick Mame]

It hasn't been long enough to speak with certainty on the air blast, but I think it might be a bit too versatile.

As a soldier, I am playing with a fear akin to a heavy's paranoia of spies. If I rocket jump, a pyro can veer me into sentry fire or splat me back into the ground (from above). I'm thankful that no pyros seem to realize this: it makes rocket jumping a very dangerous ordeal.

Scouts have always relied on their speed and mobility to survive. This requires that they jump. They are therefore in worse of a situation than the soldier; they now die instantly to a well-played pyro.

While I don't play heavily with demoman, I imagine they will be crying. They have no weapons that the pyro cannot counter. If they face one alone, they are probably going to die.

Heavies have learned how to fly. I have watched Reipin be flung several miles away quite easily.


You can sit at a dispenser and air blast while ubers try to destroy sentries. If you sit behind the sentry with the engineer, there is no counter to this. A spy, perhaps: excluding the fact it is a pyro sitting behind the sentry. A sniper, perhaps: excluding the fact that snipers can't shoot through sentries. Explosives have always been the means to take out sentries, a pyro on defense makes any offense a whole lot harder.

You can sit on the cart on goldrush as an offensive pyro and air blast people away. Goldrush has always depended on someone holding the cart because that thing moves darn fast. One air blast gives the opposing team several critical seconds of movement.

You can blow people into sentry fire or off of ledges to get them killed immediately. You can blow some classes (like spy or pyro) up into the air and hold them there so they are rendered useless. Although it would be quite fun to blow a sniper on 2fort into the water; I won't complain about that one.


My concern is that the pyro, before the update, was a deadly class. After the removal of damage fall out, the pyro becomes a very deadly class. With the inclusion of such a versatile ability, the pyro becomes a very deadly class with a unique ability that can pretty much get him through every undesirable situation. It pretty much looks like the way to approach a pyro now is 'kill them before they get remotely near the front, pray they aren't defending'. I really, really think that air blast needs some tweaking.

[Reipin]

I think the only tweak that is needed is that the air juggle needs to be removed. I don't mind the push but the air juggle makes it too strong.

Pyro is supposed to be an offensive class, not an all in one everything class. 25 ammo just does not seem to be a big enough drawback to the use of teh compressed air. It takes what, two minutes to build an uber? And you can cancel that at anytime with compressed air... You would be hard pressed to not have 25 ammo for the compressed air...

[DeafOfficeWorker]

[quote="Reipin";p="101753"]Pyro is supposed to be an offensive class...[/quote]

I disagree. I believe they were intended to be a defensive class.

[Reipin]

They might want to list him under defense then =\

[DeafOfficeWorker]

[quote="Reipin";p="101763"]They might want to list him under defense then =\[/quote]

You're right. They got it wrong.

[Plinko]

Pyro was supposed to be an offensive class, now with the update maybe they can be.

[paranoidandroid64]

Pyro is a mentally sick and questioning individual that doesn't quite know his place, questions all boundaries, (aka purse) and trys to do a lot of just messed up things that normally would get a person locked up or sued.. Don't box him into catagories like "offensive" unless your catagory is "crazy Chaos lover"

This update adds to the Chaos.. There are ways to counter the pyros new tricks..


I also think pyros will hate some of the other classes updates .. when they come out!


That said 5 all the time is a bit much... just like 5 engies would be a bit much when it calms down a bit.. I think it will be in good balance.

[MrBlah]

I was the only pyro on my team for a while.... it was so... normal

[shimmybot]

[quote="MrBlah";p="101798"]
I was the only pyro on my team for a while.... it was so... normal
[/quote]



yeah I got that too

[TheCarpe]

Uncivilized got it right, just as Valve said, there has been a change to the very core of TF2. So, playing the same way now as you did before this will probably end up bad for you.

You just need to asjust your strategy. I don't see the Pyros as uber-wreckers. Consider when the Pyromania dies down, and you have maybe 2 or 3 Pyros tops. Also consider that the compressed air blast is not available on the Backburner. So once normalcy returns to the classes, you won't be facing five air-blasting Pyro's at once anymore. Perhaps 1 or 2. And you need to adjust your strategy to compensate. Whether that means aiming for Pyros before sentries (bear in mind, Pyros still need to get very close to their target to blast them), or waiting until Pyros have been dealt with, or just trying it and praying.

The game has changed. Change with it or be left behind.

[Nick Mame]

I am not opposed to change so much as I am opposed to cheapening the classes. Air blast spam is possible and reminiscent of rocket or grenade spam; it doesn't accomplish much, but it's really darn annoying. If they would just raise the ammo cost of an air blast I would be content. It should be a skill used at a critical moment, such as to reflect a crit rocket right before it hits your medic, instead of something you can just use at every given occasion. Make it a skill, not another form of spam.

[Stevo]

Maybe they could give it a charge up time or something. You can only use a few blasts at a time and you would have to let it fill back up. That might be better.