Team Fortress 2

[Nick Mame]

I'm frustrated and need a place to vent.

There's a very particular reason why I hate dustbowl and warpath with a little bit of goldrush on the side. Those are the maps on which the team matters, where even the greatest player can accomplish nothing if he goes out and acts on his own. Well I can live with that. A little cooperation and communication can be good for you. Then you are introduced to the average TF2 player and quickly realize that cooperating with them will either lead to an agonizingly slow defeat, a drawn out stalemate, or a win achieved through complete luck.

It's not that they are bad at their class or refuse to communicate. Some of them are better players than me and almost all more willing to speak out. It's because of the age old saying, "Get on the freakin' point, morons!"


It's people who run away from the point when it's about to be captured because they don't want to die. It's people who run away and give ground to the enemy on control point map because the enemy happens to advance. It's those people who have no ounce of aggression in their body and are content to wage trench warfare with rockets and grenades for hours on end despite there being an actual objective to the map.

Or if you please, it's those people who join a capture the flag map and never once see the intelligence, their own or the enemy's. Those people who wage a massive deathmatch in the center while the same spy works towards the intelligence, alone, several dozen times. Those people who only realize the flag exists when it's right in front of them, already half-way home.

Those people vex me.


I do not mind new inexperienced players who are not the greatest at a particular class. I do not mind losing after a well-fought battle.

I mind when it seems as if I am the only person on the team with an actual objective in mind. I mind when the class composition consists of three snipers and four engineers on a map where a strong offense is key to victory. I mind when people resign themselves to stalemate or defeat and refuse to advance until after two good players work themselves to death and somehow manage to capture a point on their own.


Dustbowl, Warpath and Goldrush are not trench warfare. There are not two static fronts which are to exchange fire until one is displaced. There is an objective off in the distance which you are supposed to claim as the purpose of the map.

I mind when my team sits there instead of advancing towards that objective.



So, uh... I suppose I'll just stick with the few hours a day TV4 has players, then.

[LJ]

Unfortunately you just have to live with it. All games suffer from the same problem. People don't want to die and people are obsessed with stats. Winning for the team means very little.

And you can't start tracking stats based on how well your team does. It would just encourage people to switch to the winning team. There's too much of that as it is.

[TheCarpe]

I know what you mean, Nick, and I feel for you. I hate rushing in with an uber and decimating the enemy position to find nobody following us and we get quickly swarmed when our ten seconds run out. I hate seeing an uber Heavy headed for our team and seeing a Pyro with an airblast flamethrower running for cover for dear life. Most of all I hate people who play more for stats than the game at hand. If I have a bad round finish a game with a .50 KDR and lose 200 points, but win in the end, that game is success to me. If I cap a point 75% to completion and get gibbed by stickies, only to see another teammate finish it off for me while I wait to respawn, that round was a success. Hell, even if I go Scout simply to touch the Intel for a split second before being blown to kingdom come, just keeping it alive, that life was a success.

So I feel for you, Nick. Don't be so quick to count out Warpath, though. I've had some amazing teams and even more amazing victories on that map. You'll find yourself on similar teams on IV as well in due time. It's just part of the game, sadly

[MrBlah]

Part of it if you ask me, though based off of people who play for stats, is not that. TF2 is not a deathmatch game where kills and deaths make a difference. So many people play it that way. They think if they can get a high KD ratio, than they be better off. Yet the funny thing about that is it seems many refuse the try. Carpe would know what Im talking about when being a pyro... no pain no gain. Literally. If you do no sacrifice yourself while attempting to get kills, you wont go anywhere. So what if you want to stay back and try and spy check.. you are wasting your time. let the engis take care of it.

If I am alive for longer than a couple of minutes... two things are the piossibilies. Im kinda sitting back and preserving my life or I was just doing really really well and happened to be the uberee a time or two. I am rarely alive for more than a couple minutes at a time Camping is for those who play for KD ratio... not for me.

[TheCarpe]

That's how I play too. Heavy, team-scattering offense with reckless abandon for my own well being .

[So Uncivilized]

Agreed, but I think I have mentioned before somewhere in these threads that I have heard someone that's a fairly regular player defend their choice of the sniper class because they 'lose too many points' if they die.


Booo.

Also, most asshats will rank out their team and then point to their score as the reason that they are so awesome. I don't like hlstats.

EDIT: I guess I don't like in-game scoring so much, either. Kinds wish it was just based on the team that won, and each person got points pro-rated based on how long they were on the winning team during that round. Meh, just skylarking on that one. The stats are what they are, but I see some players obsessively typing 'session' and so forth. they should go play COD 4 or Halo or something.


SU

[MrBlah]

[quote="So Uncivilized";p="110181"]
EDIT: I guess I don't like in-game scoring so much, either. Kinds wish it was just based on the team that won, and each person got points pro-rated based on how long they were on the winning team during that round. Meh, just skylarking on that one. The stats are what they are, but I see some players obsessively typing 'session' and so forth. they should go play COD 4 or Halo or something.
[/quote]

Agreed

[Nick Mame]

Pah! There are always bad team players on IV. You just don't notice it because none of the custom maps are as teamwork oriented as what runs on the other servers.


I feel better now, though. I went on a 24/7 instant-respawn 2fort server to snipe for a while. It started getting pretty funny after a tri-uber sniper on the enemy battlements. One of them even managed a bodyshot as the uber was wearing off!

[Captain Jim]

[quote="TheCarpe";p="110180"]That's how I play too. Heavy, team-scattering offense with reckless abandon for my own well being .[/quote]

Exactly! That's the way to do it, especially as Pyro. Alot of times, my raids end up with me dead and I didn't kill many people on the other side. But, I was able to set the lot of them on fire, so they scramble around in panic, giving my team time to move out, and it feels good.

...I also can't tell how many times I've thrown myself onto stickies to let my team go forward...

[Plinko]

This is not just a problem with TF2, but with any team, objective-based FPS I have ever played. CS, DoD, Battlefield. . . I've never played such a game where it wasn't a big problem.

The addition of voice communication has helped, a fair amount of the people not thinking "objective!" are really fairly sheep-like and will fall in line behind anyone sounding authoritative trying to coordinate everyone by trying to make plans, and give heads-up on ubers, saps and/or rushes right before they happen.

[Pine]

i know exactly what you mean nick.. whenever i play gold rush i always run up to the cart and suicide before letting it start to roll backwards.. but most people dont really care they just run and hide because there are stickies there and they would rather live then help the cart move forward
i also find it kind of sad when im play warpath and, as a sniper, i capture more points than some people.. or one of the few people who actually protects the point from being captured as to running right past it when a spy or scout is on it, just so they can get right to fighting

[TTHREAZ]

I hear ya. I love to play scout on Warpath just so I can run into the enemy's face and distract them so my team can advance. Problem is, most of the time it goes unnoticed.

It's beautiful, though, when I can be extremely annoying to one or two enemies to the point where they follow me while my teammates cap the last point. If I can do that, I'm happy.

[TheCarpe]

Oh man, don't get me started on the Payload maps where nobody will touch the cart to stop it moving backwards. The cart sits for 30 seconds before moving backwars, if you jump on it and instantly die, chances are you'll respawn and be back in the action before the cart starts receding again.

Not only that, but even as slow as the cart moves back, it moves a considerable distance in that same 30 period if nobody touches it.

[TTHREAZ]

It's extremely frustrating when you yell over and over to just touch it. OMG TOUCH IT!

[Pine]

seriously..
guys touch the cart so it doesnt move back
guys. touch the cart
can you guys please touch the freaking cart!
THE CART IS RIGHT THERE TOUCH IT!
and many more..