Krispies does have a point, the person leading the stats is probably going to be the person who puts the most time into it, and the people who don't play that much are pretty much screwed.
It seemed like the old system would've worked so that everyone kinda hits a plateau somewhere, where they just can't get enough points to go over how much they're losing, and hopefully at the end of the month or whatever, you'll be able to see how far each person could get.
Stats - some changes
- [tLD] Optimus Prime
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[quote="RiceKrispies";p="71985"]the only thing I can see thats "good" coming out of this is the fact people feel free to do whatever they want. This would be done without stats at all, or if you really want to just have fun, screw the stats, screw what class you are.
I dont have a problem with people having fun and all of that, but the people in this thead saying that the stats are better off with no loss, that just makes no sense in the least.[/quote]
Considering that the game, itself does not penalize for player death, how does point loss on death improve the stat system? It discourages aggressive play and rewards players for turtling. Really, it is a great system for medics but a lousy system for scouts.
Just out of curiosity, Krispies, not counting the past two days, how many times in the past two weeks have you made a suicide run to tag the intel and keep it alive? (personally, I don't even think I did so once)
I dont have a problem with people having fun and all of that, but the people in this thead saying that the stats are better off with no loss, that just makes no sense in the least.[/quote]
Considering that the game, itself does not penalize for player death, how does point loss on death improve the stat system? It discourages aggressive play and rewards players for turtling. Really, it is a great system for medics but a lousy system for scouts.
Just out of curiosity, Krispies, not counting the past two days, how many times in the past two weeks have you made a suicide run to tag the intel and keep it alive? (personally, I don't even think I did so once)
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[quote="[tLD] Optimus Prime";p="71988"]...the people who don't play that much are pretty much screwed.[/quote]
I disagree. I think the people giving themselves ulcers trying to play 20 hours a day are getting "screwed" out of enjoying a great game.
[quote="Torven";p="71998"]...how many times in the past two weeks have you made a suicide run to tag the intel and keep it alive?[/quote]
I'm not going to touch that one. That would most likely start a rant which would make my blood pressure rise to dangerous levels. Like I said before, some of the top ranked players would most definitely be my last picks (if at all) if I were choosing a team for the Cup.
[quote="mr_s";p="72006"]I can feel a little negative energy in this thread..
[/quote]
That's what prompted me to speak up.
I think all you stat lovers owe Mr. Dog a big thank you for trying to give you what you want. He made the present changes because of the bitching and moaning about losing your precious points (up to 25 pts., for crying out loud!!!!
)
I disagree. I think the people giving themselves ulcers trying to play 20 hours a day are getting "screwed" out of enjoying a great game.
[quote="Torven";p="71998"]...how many times in the past two weeks have you made a suicide run to tag the intel and keep it alive?[/quote]
I'm not going to touch that one. That would most likely start a rant which would make my blood pressure rise to dangerous levels. Like I said before, some of the top ranked players would most definitely be my last picks (if at all) if I were choosing a team for the Cup.
[quote="mr_s";p="72006"]I can feel a little negative energy in this thread..
[/quote]
That's what prompted me to speak up.
I think all you stat lovers owe Mr. Dog a big thank you for trying to give you what you want. He made the present changes because of the bitching and moaning about losing your precious points (up to 25 pts., for crying out loud!!!!
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Re: Stats - some changes
[quote="[tLD] Optimus Prime";p="71988"]Krispies does have a point, the person leading the stats is probably going to be the person who puts the most time into it, and the people who don't play that much are pretty much screwed.[/quote]
Not quite true.
I was playing last night (and I often don't get the chance to play) and I was racking up 17-25 pt kills killing some of the ranked players.
I remember our DoDS stats when we ran them.
We would get players like Eunn who would join, rack up sniper kill after sniper kill and would be in the top 10 quickly. Then he would disappear yet he would still remain at the top of the scoreboard.
Because he wasn't around, he wasn't giving anything up for remaining at that position in the ranks.
He wouldn't go down the ranks because he wasn't around to be killed.
That's unfair.
This system will be in place for a week or so and we will look again.
One thing.
The server logs are a LOT smaller now because only half the stats messages are being sent
Not quite true.
I was playing last night (and I often don't get the chance to play) and I was racking up 17-25 pt kills killing some of the ranked players.
I remember our DoDS stats when we ran them.
We would get players like Eunn who would join, rack up sniper kill after sniper kill and would be in the top 10 quickly. Then he would disappear yet he would still remain at the top of the scoreboard.
Because he wasn't around, he wasn't giving anything up for remaining at that position in the ranks.
He wouldn't go down the ranks because he wasn't around to be killed.
That's unfair.
This system will be in place for a week or so and we will look again.
One thing.
The server logs are a LOT smaller now because only half the stats messages are being sent
- Renegade JB
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Let me take a moment to say this about the topic of points.
1) how is it right to give someone 25 points for the same kill another gets 2? Its not.
2) why should a sniper,who sits hiding for his kill, get more points for a kill then someone like a soldier,scout,heavy,pyro or anyone attacking the enemy?
3)A spy should get the same amount of points as anyone else cause he clokes himself, runs up to a member of the other team, and kills them? I DONT THINK SO......
4)Spys should not be allowed to cap a "flag/point" alone..
I HAVE AN IDEA.......Lets have a kill be 1 point a death be 1 point an assist be 1/2 point... Now lets just have fun playing the game...
1) how is it right to give someone 25 points for the same kill another gets 2? Its not.
2) why should a sniper,who sits hiding for his kill, get more points for a kill then someone like a soldier,scout,heavy,pyro or anyone attacking the enemy?
3)A spy should get the same amount of points as anyone else cause he clokes himself, runs up to a member of the other team, and kills them? I DONT THINK SO......
4)Spys should not be allowed to cap a "flag/point" alone..
I HAVE AN IDEA.......Lets have a kill be 1 point a death be 1 point an assist be 1/2 point... Now lets just have fun playing the game...
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[quote="Renegade JB";p="72040"]Let me take a moment to say this about the topic of points.
1) how is it right to give someone 25 points for the same kill another gets 2? Its not.[/quote]
It is set up that way so that low ranked players get the chance to progress faster up through the ranks. All stats systems use this method.
[quote="Renegade JB";p="72040"]
2) why should a sniper,who sits hiding for his kill, get more points for a kill then someone like a soldier,scout,heavy,pyro or anyone attacking the enemy? [/quote]
He doesn't in TF2. In DoDS this was the case but in TF2 the multiplier for the Sniper is 1.00 whereas the scout gets a bigger multiplier for his scattergun, while the heavy has way more health. Besides most of the TF2 snipers I know here at TheVille are forward pushing snipers, always in the thick of it. Check out their machete kills and you'll get an idea. Perhaps you are still thinking about certain DoD1.3 snipers who preferred to hide and shoot and not move from the same point (which was usually his last flag!)?
[quote="Renegade JB";p="72040"]
3)A spy should get the same amount of points as anyone else cause he clokes himself, runs up to a member of the other team, and kills them? I DONT THINK SO......[/quote]
Have you tried playing spy?
Don't know about you, but I'm always filled with admiration for players like Silverone who play Spy so cunningly. I ALWAYS get discovered and shot.....
[quote="Renegade JB";p="72040"]
4)Spys should not be allowed to cap a "flag/point" alone..
[/quote]
This is nothing to do with the stats. That's in the game so perhaps a quick email to Doug Lombardi or Gabe Newell at VALVe might be in order....
1) how is it right to give someone 25 points for the same kill another gets 2? Its not.[/quote]
It is set up that way so that low ranked players get the chance to progress faster up through the ranks. All stats systems use this method.
[quote="Renegade JB";p="72040"]
2) why should a sniper,who sits hiding for his kill, get more points for a kill then someone like a soldier,scout,heavy,pyro or anyone attacking the enemy? [/quote]
He doesn't in TF2. In DoDS this was the case but in TF2 the multiplier for the Sniper is 1.00 whereas the scout gets a bigger multiplier for his scattergun, while the heavy has way more health. Besides most of the TF2 snipers I know here at TheVille are forward pushing snipers, always in the thick of it. Check out their machete kills and you'll get an idea. Perhaps you are still thinking about certain DoD1.3 snipers who preferred to hide and shoot and not move from the same point (which was usually his last flag!)?
[quote="Renegade JB";p="72040"]
3)A spy should get the same amount of points as anyone else cause he clokes himself, runs up to a member of the other team, and kills them? I DONT THINK SO......[/quote]
Have you tried playing spy?
Don't know about you, but I'm always filled with admiration for players like Silverone who play Spy so cunningly. I ALWAYS get discovered and shot.....
[quote="Renegade JB";p="72040"]
4)Spys should not be allowed to cap a "flag/point" alone..
[/quote]
This is nothing to do with the stats. That's in the game so perhaps a quick email to Doug Lombardi or Gabe Newell at VALVe might be in order....
Let me throw my two cents in ...
Stats are good, it gives you a good idea on how you are doing relative to everyone else. If you are obsessed with being top 100, top 50 or even top 10 all the time, no system will be perfect. At the same time, there needs to be a balance between gaining points and losing them. Players who might just look for stats might come to the front instead of hanging back, but even then, they will look for personal glorification and not team play. If he hangs back now not to loose points, he will move forward and risk dying possibly for big ticket items like point caps (score methodology won't change the persons outlook on the game).
For me, I've played with and against most of you. Some have owned me big time (THREADZ whopped me good on Orange the other night), but loosing heavy points, forced me to change strategy and really go after the guys who were knocking me down. It also helps me if I am "off my game" to seek imediate corrective action or go sleep (being very tired makes you do stupid things
). I tend to switch classes a lot to help out my team even at the expense of stats. If anybody looks at my stats you'll se no clear trend, some days I die a lot, other days I kill a few more than kill me.
Jury is still out on whether this will good or not, but it will help those with more free time to climb stats, plus I am unsure if the no death penalty will actually improve teamwork overall. But, I do want to give the admins the benefit of the doubt and give it a shot.
Stats are good, it gives you a good idea on how you are doing relative to everyone else. If you are obsessed with being top 100, top 50 or even top 10 all the time, no system will be perfect. At the same time, there needs to be a balance between gaining points and losing them. Players who might just look for stats might come to the front instead of hanging back, but even then, they will look for personal glorification and not team play. If he hangs back now not to loose points, he will move forward and risk dying possibly for big ticket items like point caps (score methodology won't change the persons outlook on the game).
For me, I've played with and against most of you. Some have owned me big time (THREADZ whopped me good on Orange the other night), but loosing heavy points, forced me to change strategy and really go after the guys who were knocking me down. It also helps me if I am "off my game" to seek imediate corrective action or go sleep (being very tired makes you do stupid things
). I tend to switch classes a lot to help out my team even at the expense of stats. If anybody looks at my stats you'll se no clear trend, some days I die a lot, other days I kill a few more than kill me.Jury is still out on whether this will good or not, but it will help those with more free time to climb stats, plus I am unsure if the no death penalty will actually improve teamwork overall. But, I do want to give the admins the benefit of the doubt and give it a shot.
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- Renegade JB
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WOW Dog...
In responce to ur bitchslap.
Ya gotta start somewhere so why be given prime numbers cause your new? The stats are reset every month so the newbe can look foreward to the day.
On the sniper issue. You must not be looking at the ones who have been playing on Warpath 24/7.
I dont want to play the spy. I have nothing good to say about them...
It has alot to do with stats. POINTS = STATS
BUT You know I'm right about one thing...
Have fun playing the game...
In responce to ur bitchslap.
Ya gotta start somewhere so why be given prime numbers cause your new? The stats are reset every month so the newbe can look foreward to the day.
On the sniper issue. You must not be looking at the ones who have been playing on Warpath 24/7.
I dont want to play the spy. I have nothing good to say about them...
It has alot to do with stats. POINTS = STATS
BUT You know I'm right about one thing...
Have fun playing the game...
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Well, this thread has touched a nerve among people that I wasn't expecting. Some people have some tough stances on stats (both sides). I still do not understand what is wrong. If you do not like stats, do not look at them or play for them. If you like the stats, then just look at them and rank yourself.
I still think as long as people are having fun and not impeding the fun of others for stats, then why are we arguing. The only person I could think of that would be pissed is dog, because he has to regulate the stats to please everyone.
The cup will be an entirely different scenario and stats are just plain stupid for drafting any team. I would pick entirely on the synergy and teamwork that some people are just great for when they play together. Only few have this talent, making it exceedingly difficult to be captain of a team.
[quote="Renegade JB";p="72040"]
3)A spy should get the same amount of points as anyone else cause he clokes himself, runs up to a member of the other team, and kills them? I DONT THINK SO......[/quote]
Umm, noo... Spy is very difficult. People who have played long enough will recognize irregular behavior. Usually a spy does suicide runs because the moment his disguise goes, he has to make a quick stab and pray he makes it out alive.
As for the sniper argument, I think its more based around the nature of the class. Yes, snipers are not on the front,but actually, they never should be in front. It is just the way the sniper is. It was valve's decision to include a class like the sniper.
I still think as long as people are having fun and not impeding the fun of others for stats, then why are we arguing. The only person I could think of that would be pissed is dog, because he has to regulate the stats to please everyone.
The cup will be an entirely different scenario and stats are just plain stupid for drafting any team. I would pick entirely on the synergy and teamwork that some people are just great for when they play together. Only few have this talent, making it exceedingly difficult to be captain of a team.
[quote="Renegade JB";p="72040"]
3)A spy should get the same amount of points as anyone else cause he clokes himself, runs up to a member of the other team, and kills them? I DONT THINK SO......[/quote]
Umm, noo... Spy is very difficult. People who have played long enough will recognize irregular behavior. Usually a spy does suicide runs because the moment his disguise goes, he has to make a quick stab and pray he makes it out alive.
As for the sniper argument, I think its more based around the nature of the class. Yes, snipers are not on the front,but actually, they never should be in front. It is just the way the sniper is. It was valve's decision to include a class like the sniper.
Re: Stats - some changes
What are these stats we are talkin about???
I am just happy to get out there and be JD's rocket magnet
I am just happy to get out there and be JD's rocket magnet
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- three_gunn
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Re: Stats - some changes
[quote="=USV=Nuckin";p="72071"]What are these stats we are talkin about???
I am just happy to get out there and be JD's rocket magnet[/quote]
...exactly. stats? what stats? we dont need no stinkin stats!
but wait..dog...you are a pillar to this community and i cyber-heart you as an online comrade so even though i don't care much for stats i applaud you for this.
[quote="DeafOfficeWorker";p="72029"][quote="[tLD] Optimus Prime";p="71988"]...the people who don't play that much are pretty much screwed.[/quote]
I disagree. I think the people giving themselves ulcers trying to play 20 hours a day are getting "screwed" out of enjoying a great game.
[/quote]
...well said DOW
I am just happy to get out there and be JD's rocket magnet
[/quote] ...exactly. stats? what stats? we dont need no stinkin stats!but wait..dog...you are a pillar to this community and i cyber-heart you as an online comrade
so even though i don't care much for stats i applaud you for this.[quote="DeafOfficeWorker";p="72029"][quote="[tLD] Optimus Prime";p="71988"]...the people who don't play that much are pretty much screwed.[/quote]
I disagree. I think the people giving themselves ulcers trying to play 20 hours a day are getting "screwed" out of enjoying a great game.
[/quote]
...well said DOWWho is online
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