Warpath 2 Limits

[Pine]

i dont think limitations should have to be server set, just what is good for the team..
i say:
2 scouts
2 soldiers
2 pyros
3 demomen
1 heavy
2 engineers
2 medics
2 snipers
2 spies

[Guardian]

[quote="iOwn-";p="143053"]i dont think limitations should have to be server set, just what is good for the team..
i say:
2 scouts
2 soldiers
2 pyros
3 demomen
1 heavy
2 engineers
2 medics
2 snipers
2 spies[/quote]

There should really be only one spy and one sniper (one of either at the max)

and hold on

2+2+2+3+1+2+2+2+2 = 18

iOwn the max amount of players per team is 12.....

[Stevo]

It's 18, and he didn't say the team needed all of them at once.

[BETTEH]

[quote="Guardian";p="143075"]

2+2+2+3+1+2+2+2+2 = 19

iOwn the max amount of players per team is 12.....[/quote]

[Guardian]

It's 12 members per team.

24 slots per server / 2 teams = 12 players per team.

UNLESS you counting 36 man server (which the ville doesn't have) which would have 18 per team.

Math Nubs.

So really the spreadout should be more like

1 Scout
2 Soldiers
1-2 Pyros
2 Demoman
1-2 engies
1 heavy
2 medics
1 sniper
1 spy

[Hendrixer]

Someone please put a bullet in this thread!

Uhhh... Gas is now a $1.35 where I live, so we need to limit gas stations so the price goes back up...

[Kaladran]

If it isn't broken why try to fix it? Really no sense in changing settings on one of the buisiest Ville Servers.

People are proposing removing all choice of which units to take, which really would make every battle even more the same. Pretty dull sounding IMO.

[mr_s]

[quote="Kaladran";p="143179"]
If it isn't broken why try to fix it? Really no sense in changing settings on one of the buisiest Ville Servers.

People are proposing removing all choice of which units to take, which really would make every battle even more the same. Pretty dull sounding IMO.
[/quote]

well said

[Thxe]

Ok, I partially agree with what people have been saying about the classes being balanced well. While most of the time I think this is true, I think there are some exceptions. For instance Engies on attack/defend maps.

Take for instance 12 v 12 on dustbowl (yes, i know we are talking about warpath, but I'm just making my case for class restrictions) if the defending team has say, 6 engies, 2 medics, and 4 other random classes. They can have 6 level 3 sentry guns! 6! Ok, to take out 6 lvl 3 sentries, your going to need at least 3 uber demomen, prolly more like 4-5, plus the entire team making a simultanious attack. That requires 4-5 medics, all working together, to launch their ubers at the same time. And thats not even getting into the problem of keeping them all alive till they have uber ready! Also, on a side note, remember that it is very difficult to sap that much stuff, and because their are some many engies around to remove the sappers, any spy attack is almost certain to fail. And you have to do all that with in the time limit for the round! Now, compare the difficulty of setting up an attack like the one i just laid out to the difficulty of getting 6 engies with lvl 3 sg.

So, in conclusion, if teams were allowed 6 engies, any attack/defend map would become terribly unbalanced. Warpath is the same way, except instead of becoming unbalanced, it would stalemate way too much because once the engies were setup, nothing would happen. I agree with the starter of this thread that, in light of the engie update, the limit on engies should prolly be lowered to 2.

Thxe

[CastleDoctrine]

[quote="BETTEH CROCKHURR";p="143024"]Nice castledoctrine, someone has an opinion about the way a server is that they soleley donate there money for, and i'm moaning about it. I think you need to check yourself because i have just as much as an opinion on things as any other person, the server already HAS limits that were set into motion before the patch, so what harm is it that the admins take a look into it now, seriously, seems outright foolish of you to say such a thing.[/quote]
Please allow me to say that I by no means meant to give the impression that you don't have a right to your opinion, or that you cannot freely express it here, or that it is unwelcome. What I did mean to convey is that I disagree with your opinion. Perhaps "bemoaning" was a poor choice of words on my part. If this offended you, I ask your pardon.

My hackles have been raised of late by a slew of posts, throughout the TF2 forum, that have had an air of perfect knowledge about them on how things should be run around here. I don't believe that this fosters a courteous and cordial environment. I suggest that we all refrain from presenting our opinions as absolute and infallible.

I too have donated to The Ville, and from the moment I did so, I didn't think that I'd bought voting shares in this gaming community, an Adminship, or the right to say how the servers are to be run (maps, class limits, spawn times, fun night to serious play ratios). I was simply supporting, monetarily, a place that I enjoy playing games with friendly, sportsmanlike, people and gaining the benefits of a reserved slot/kick immunity. I expected nothing more.

I fully recognize that these servers have class limits in place. Addressing this preexisting fact in my previous post wasn't necessary as it was obvious. My position is that, in my opinion and experience (regularly playing on the Warpath server for more than half of 2008), there is not sufficient justification to loosen or tighten these limits at this time. If that time comes in the future, due to some "game breaking" change, I will trust (once again) in The Ville's Admins to do what they believe is best. That's why they get paid the big bucks.

With that, I think that these posts have been among the more instructive:

[quote="Stevo";p="142948"]These are public servers. If we get too restrictive, people won't get to play a class they like and they will leave. The limits we have now seem to be a pretty good balance between giving players a choice and keeping a decent class composition. It also leaves room in case a few unskilled players take up some of the limited class slots.[/quote][quote="Kaladran";p="143179"]If it isn't broken why try to fix it? Really no sense in changing settings on one of the buisiest Ville Servers.

People are proposing removing all choice of which units to take, which really would make every battle even more the same. Pretty dull sounding IMO.[/quote]

[BETTEH]

I'm on my iPhone so I'll make it short and sweet, played 5 games last night, enemy had 3 engies every game, 3 overtimes and two stalemates. Half of 2008 doesn't include the better portion of time in which the patch has been out.

I also disagree with you, the most instructive post was dogs, saying that it would be looked at, because it needs to be looked at, and it's dysfunctional, not broken.

[Mad-Hammer]

I have been reading this post since it started and decided I would just keep my mouth shut on the matter. Then, I thought about it and decided, what the heck, here's my two cents.

Class Limits......don't like them. Why, not because it doesn't allow me to play my favorite class but, because I have to listen to some player berate another player into giving up a slot because,"he sucks!" I don't care if it's sniper, spy, or engy, there is someone who wants that slot and will not stop whining until he gets it.

TF2 is based on team balance. If you limit one class, then you must limit the class that is the nemesis to that class. Limit the number of engies, then you need to limit the number of spies. Limit the pyros, then you need to limit the number of scouts and snipers. Next thing you know, you have a server full of medics running around.

Now to Warpath......to me the beauty of the map is not the victory but the fight. Capping the final point is kind of an anticlimax. If I'm on a team and we get rolled quickly, I'm gonna leave because we can't seem to be able to put up a fight.

If I join a server, usually they're defending the last point, and we push the enemy back to his final point, I see that as a kind of victory. I have been on the server plenty of times when it ended in a stalemate and both sides have congratulated the other for a great fight.

Warpath is a map where if both the teams are both good and knowledgeable, no matter what is thrown at them, they always come up with counter strategy. I believe this to be true also with class limits. Even with limits, it is my belief that you will still see stalemates and battles that go on forever because the teams balance out and know how to counter each other.

So, to sum up, I don't think Class Limits will lead to quick Warpath victories. If it did, I wouldn't play the map.

End my two cents.

[l3eeron]

In a perfect world, there would be no class limits and every pubber and regular would pick a class with team play in mind. But, that's not the case so limits are in place.

[Plinko]

I can totally understand that the nature of the warpath map means the new level 3 dispensers and teles make for even more stalemates and how that is not a lot of fun for many people. To me, stalemates/sudden death is much worse than ties and shootouts in hockey, someone should win in regular time as often as possible.

I think it's important to separate the suggestions of engy limits to reduce stalemates (whether they would is up for debate but I would think it's true) from the suggestion to limit spies/snipers to reduce people 'sabotaging their own team' which I can also understand but have less sympathy for than the engy limit.

Then there's the hard/soft class limit suggestions, it seems most people aren't really interested in those beyond what 4-5 player limits that already exist except as suggestions rather than rules.

Sorry if that just seems like a thread summary, but it feels to me like the ideas and responses are getting crossed. . .

[Devastator]

Sorry folks but for what i have saw (for personal experience ) who wins of course playing in team, almost always had this class balance
2 soldiers
2 demomans
1 heavy
2 medics
1 or 2 pyro
1 or 2 snipers
2 engineers
1 spy if nessesary