Pointless

[Blown65]

[quote="Stevo";p="58666"][quote="Blown65";p="58659"]Its going to happen with or without stats, cause then they just look at the scoreboard like it really means something to be at the top.[/quote]
Yeah, but the scoreboard seems to reward teamwork more than the stats. Deaths don't count against the in-game score, so people don't mind dying a lot if they need to. On the other hand, the negative impact of dying on the stats is much higher than the benefit of capturing or doing things productive for the higher-ranked players.[/quote]

true but ppl still do, like at the bottom of your stats it does tell ya kills and deaths. (among other things)

[l3eeron]

I personally dont care for stats. But I like to see how many points a certain person is worth, and how many points Im worth etc. Ive never checked my rankings...


Maybe we could put a higher value on team-play associated events. Like a blocked cap, a successful intel cap, healing, etc to encourage the stat mongers to be a part of the team. I dont know how feasible this is, and Im sure it would throw everything out of balance and piss more people off


The stat mongers will always be a part of games. Even if there wasnt stats there would still be people that dont want to die, they'd rather camp. This is nothing new and wont go away, and getting rid of the stats might help, but wont alleviate the problem. There are always going to be people trying to "pwn" everyone and not die. These guys dont care about winning the map. The omition of hlx stats wont deter them from that style of game play. So I say just leave the stats running. Maybe add a rolling comment that you can opt out of the stats if you want.


Im not against trying out a stat-free server. I just dont think it'll make that big of a difference.

Stress, I feel you man... I hate it when Me n a partner uber, take down all the sgs, but yet there was no one behind us to clean up the enemies and cap

[xXBatmanXx]

Stress, I feel you man... I hate it when Me n a partner uber, take down all the sgs, but yet there was no one behind us to clean up the enemies and cap

Cue Warpath thread! ugh.

[stress]

ya, i think that a points structure that favors teamplay would be great. Some ideas would be : sentry gun 1 point (the gun will get kills on its own if it is placed well, if it is just a deterent or door blocker, then still just 1 point), dispensers 3 points and raise all of the difficult stuff: dominations, ubers, caps, defends, so on. And -25 for any death is brutal, i wish it could have multiple tiers based on the points of the killer (every 1000 points a different points ratio), assisted deaths should only be -2 regardless. at -25 you are not rewarding a player (which you might have gotten an assist kill with a stray nade or shotgun), instead you are penalizing the dead for dying at all, even if he/she wasnt in the same area. I have gone 12-1 by solo rushing a whole team but my 1 death means I was -1 for the effort, so it wasn't worth it based on points.

And i know peeps will still have thier own playstyles that are less team based, but the points system actually rewards you for doing little to nothing. you can just stay in a corner and build all day and be in the top 10, taking up an engy spot and weakening the team. Without points, that will never happen.

One important note to remeber with all of this is, I only meant no stats on 1 server, not all, just 1.

[stress]

o ya and maybe a max points per round for building items, something thats reasonable, considering that you have to build so many strategically and a certain number will be destroyed, but you shouldnt be rewarded for building 3x that calculated sum. it would make you build more intelligently. not a max on building, but a max on building points.

[[BIO] The German]

My .02$ as a game designer:

Like it or not, the stats play a great role in building the community and getting people that would otherwise just play on any open server to come back and eventually engage in the community.

By offering a 'persistent profile' to users, they get a reason to stick around initially, after a while they start socializing and building a social network and finally they stay around more because of their social network than because of the stats.

Additionally stats allow people to measure their own progression over time and satisfy the 'achiever / collector' needs for a good part of the gaming population (see Gamer Scores, etc.)

This are concepts most persistent online games (e.g. WoW) exploit to build and maintain a large user base. Online shooters have started to venture into this area by adding some measurable statistic and bragging pages (Steam), adding rank progression with measurable gameplay impact (Call of Duty 4, Battlefield Series, etc.) and more. While Valve is careful only to provide 'positive' data on the steam profiles (e.g. no deaths) to avoid alienating new players, a lot of people actually like the additional stats provided by HLStatsX.

While the stats are only one reason why many of us play here after a while, they were probably a major reason for many people to stick around at The Ville initially and get engaged in the community. Removing them would make the select server more like 'any other out there' (especially those with better ping) and cause a lot of the stat seeking people migrate to the remaining servers (increasing the wait time to get on these servers in the first place).

Don't underestimate the impact of stats on the achiever / collector crowd

Ultimately I think being able to disable the stats chat on a per player basis is a good enough solution.

And, as people have said before - I doubt the stats change gameplay too much. There seem to be more than enough "let's just go out and wrench people" games going on these days


There would be several interesting ways of adding more value for teamplayers to the system (e.g. customized daily awards based on team performance, granting persistent award medals to forum profiles, etc.), nothing that can't be done with a bit of creative SQL

[Pine]

[quote="Nanite";p="58643"]Are those everytime you join or a one time thing?[/quote]
you should only ahave to say the command 1 time and it stops the pop-ups every time
at least thats how its been for me

[Pine]

[quote="Nanite";p="58643"]Are those everytime you join or a one time thing?[/quote]
you should only ahave to say the command 1 time and it stops the pop-ups every time
at least thats how its been for me[quote="[BIO] The German";p="58744"]
There seem to be more than enough "let's just go out and wrench people" games going on these days
[/quote]
LOL one day our whole team was melee XD

[stress]

again, i support all of the ideas behind points. I am talking about 1 server, not all of them, not getting rid of points, just 1 server.

how is no one getting this?

[TheCarpe]

I honestly don't really care that much about the points. I like the kill tracking, being able to see how many times I've killed with the different weapons (axe), how long I've played, and such.

I kind of guage my performance that day on my points. If I went up, I had a good day, if I went down, I had a bad day.

Trust me, if I were overly concerned about my points, I wouldn't play the way I do .

So I'm not hung up on them, I just think they're a fun bit of statistics I can look at to see how well (or, indeed, BAD) I am doing.

[Sickmeat]

the main thing i don't like about the points is that i think it encourages team stacking.

i was playing the other day on dustbowl and i noticed one player constantly switching to the red team. defence on that map leads to a better kill/death ratio.

i wouldn't mind seeing a 100 point deduction for switching teams, or 100 points every time you log on to the server if you exit out and come in more than once in an hour.

my 2 cents

[Buzzy Beetle]

[quote="Sickmeat";p="58846"]the main thing i don't like about the points is that i think it encourages team stacking.[/quote]

Nah, I don't think that's it. Quite a few of the 'better' players are also 'friends' and, in this case, like to play with one another. Understand that there is no intention of "let's play together and beat the other team right out of their points!". On the contrary, the mentality usually is "Hey guys! Let's joke and give it our all!" Big difference.

I can say this because I've played on (and against) teams I felt were stacked, if for no other reason than at LEAST 4-5 of people I consider to be the best players around The Ville on the same team. Other skilled players would be good to counter such a team, but that's not always going to work.

Not saying I condone team stacking, I'd much rather have a challenge than an easy win. I kinda wish that some of our top-class players would be a little more observant with how teams are doing and balance them out if it's at all possible. =P

As for points, I'd say they're a nessicary evil. And, like the Achievements, are something for players to work for even though they essentially do nothing mostly considering that in order to have a high point score you have to either play a TON or be stupidly good *COUGHCOUGHGREGCOUGH* in a very short period of time. But mostly it has to do with time played, which comes from sticking around long enough to break 2k points and beyond.

[acrazyhobo]

I personally enjoy having the stats system because it tells me how I'm doing with each of the 9 classes, and also how it tracks the kills with each weapon But I won't sacrifice a game, myself, or teammates to get more points, because that would just be plain idiotic and who likes losing because of a point monger?

[stress]

UPDATE

thank god were not Congress, although this is probably how it is for them as well.

let's recap =]

initial point - should we have one server without points?

result - debate on the absolute value of a points system.

i'd say that misses the mark pretty well, not to sidestep the validity or value of the input here. But I never wondered, questioned or feared the use of points. In fact I think they are great and no one really has exposed any knowledge about them that didnt already exist.

it's as if I said, " hey, lets get a haircut." and everyones response is, "umm, we can't not have hair", "hair is important", hair is usefully because", "I like having hair". but I just wanted a trim.

It was an attempt at changing the relative dynamic during the game. I thought people may play differently and I wanted to see how that would affect teamwork.

It was never a challenge or judgement of the use of points. If you only had one server, I could see how this would be a big change, but honestly, with 6 servers, it's more of an experiment than it is a life change.

knowing this, would the change on one server collapse the whole?

probably not, but that is where this seemed to go, sadly. Can we resume the original question?

I need a drink.

[SilverOne]

I think a nice solution to this problem is to use what the Ville did back in the day... Im sure some of you old timers remember this....

No Stats Week!
Go Cap a flag and help your team.

The admins would pick a random date this would happen. For a week, when you click on any stat page this would show up. It would give a nice break for everyone.


I think its perfect.


Back in the day we used to have a top 5 stat players of the month too. A special news section for it. Then we would have the no stat week every other month or so. I remember this.. because I was on it, often.