I need help

[YoullNeverWalkAlone]

I'm finding that I enjoy playing the game, and usually either play a solo campaign (playing with random folks has been mostly a bad experience) or one of the Plas organized vs games. However, I am also finding that I'm not very good at the game to the frustration of myself and sometimes those I play with.

I need help. I would really like to improve my play so that I can be credit to team. I think part of my struggles are not being totally familiar with all the maps and getting confused on where I am going (I couldn't get out of the 1st building on No Mercy the other day when playing a campaign by myself!), but I get frustrated with being unable to effectively play as the infected, and being able to play well in the team as the survivors also.

Any thoughts, ideas, guides, suggestions? Last night was the first time my team had won a game in weeks! (and what a game, a 6 point win I think!) and I feel like we are playing 3 on 4 at times.

[TTHREAZ]

Good survivor play is the key to any versus game. Sure, you can do really well as infected but if you don't know how to handle yourself as a survivor, it won't really matter.

Are there particular things that you'd like to learn about? I'm always open for questions and will do my best to answer them.

[YoullNeverWalkAlone]

T, I'm not sure exactly what to ask about survivor play. I'm not exactly certain what I'm doing wrong, or what things I can improve on. I think I can improve on when to use the shove back, and perhaps on my weapon choices. I'm not real familiar with the weapons and tend to avoid the shotguns unless we are going to see a tank. I wish you could spectate a game! I'd love to watch some of the more experienced folks, and perhaps have someone watch me play.

[Plas]

I have almost 30 hours less than you do game play wise, so I'm right there at the same level. You are not any worse than any of us that started playing l4d recently. VS along with co-op takes a lot of timing and teamwork and every map has multiple points of attack. I learn something new each time I play through a map. L4D2 was released late 2009, so we're kinda late to learning the game. These matches are all made up of villuns, for the most part, so we can laugh at our screw ups.

The biggest thing I find that I have issues with ( and more experienced players generally complain about) is keeping the pace moving as a group. I'll find myself at points slowed down by common zombies, I either try to push them out of the way when I really should just reload to clear the group. Or I'm just not paying enough attention to where I'm standing and get bogged down. Then I'll end up up behind enough that I can be picked off easily.

[Mortis462]

Best thing to do to practice survivor is to speed run if you ask me. This forces you to watch your health, use temp health and throwables appropriately and most importantly sticking together as a group so you can all cover each other. Knowing the map helps and speed running will help you learn the important bits.

I'm always willing to help out as well, I have probably too many hours into the game(800ish) so I like to think I have a good idea as to what's going on. I'm not a huge vs fan because I find infected insanely frustrating to play as most of the time. Hit me up if you ever want to mess around.

[kkpyro]

I have played over 400 hours of L4D2 and I still struggle with VS.
There are so many variables that strategies have to be flexible and you
have to RUN in vs. Running as a team is tough.

I have a standing "date" to play every weekend with a friend.
We both love the game, so we get into Skype and just catch up and
kill zombies. This has led us to play many custom maps as well.
We play almost exclusively campaign, tho.

I'm certainly not a pro at this (sad to say after so many hours), but
I would love to play some stock maps with either of you and just help you
get to know the maps better. It's fun to play a campaign and not rush through.

When it comes to weapons, the AK is the best all around gun. The "magnum" will
cut through just about any mob, its my favorite gun. When you need to cap a witch,
the auto shottie is amazing. For some crazy reason, I have a talent for witch capping.
(or I'm extremely lucky ) but I practiced it over and over. I also like the Scar, but
honestly that's just because I like the sound of it. The M16 is very accurate. A good gun as well.


Send me a chat or feel free to join one of our weekend games.

[YoullNeverWalkAlone]

I have played over 400 hours of L4D2 and I still struggle with VS.
There are so many variables that strategies have to be flexible and you
have to RUN in vs. Running as a team is tough.

I have a standing "date" to play every weekend with a friend.
We both love the game, so we get into Skype and just catch up and
kill zombies. This has led us to play many custom maps as well.
We play almost exclusively campaign, tho.

I'm certainly not a pro at this (sad to say after so many hours), but
I would love to play some stock maps with either of you and just help you
get to know the maps better. It's fun to play a campaign and not rush through.

When it comes to weapons, the AK is the best all around gun. The "magnum" will
cut through just about any mob, its my favorite gun. When you need to cap a witch,
the auto shottie is amazing. For some crazy reason, I have a talent for witch capping.
(or I'm extremely lucky ) but I practiced it over and over. I also like the Scar, but
honestly that's just because I like the sound of it. The M16 is very accurate. A good gun as well.


Send me a chat or feel free to join one of our weekend games.

Thanks! Perhaps part of my frustration is vs. There is a built in sense of frustration when the survivors almost never reach a safehouse and I can't play a half way decent hunter or jockey. I think, too, that the pace that vs goes at with the rush tends to make me feel like I'm dragging my team down.

I think the best best for me to get better is to play some campaign with other villuns. Thinking back to the first time I ever played, Alizee and a couple others were very helpful and were able to give great pointers playing with less stress than a vs map can bring. I do enjoy playing the 4v4 most of the time, but I think playing against bots might help me learn a bit better.

I'll take up anyone who is looking for an extra person to play with.

[Boss Llama]

A few of us long-time player were chatting about holding some training nights for new folks that are interested, akin to Buzzy's teamwork lessons. I'll have to ask and see if that's still going on. In the meantime...

Some general principles for newer folks when playing survivor:

1) Keep moving. Do not explore, you should already know the maps (learn them in Single Player). Do not stand around when no zombies are present, that just makes the director send more hordes, and gives enemy specials time to respawn and/or get in place.

2) When the specials attack, or when a team member is down, are the only time it's acceptable to stop without being forced to. Count how many specials you've killed, so you know how many should be alive. Run a mental clock on their respawn cycle. If all four are down, get going! If all four are up, be cautious. Learn and listen for the bacterias - the audio clues that tell you what has spawned. Even if you can't see or hear to SI, you can hear these notes.

3) Stay together. A team will generally succeed, a bunch of individuals generally will not. Communicate everything. Communicate where and what attacks are incoming. Communicate if you are getting slowed down or stuck. Communicate if you need help, and when you are coming to help somebody else. If somebody goes down, get them back up! Person on the ground, make sure you're using your pistol to take down anything coming at your rescuer. Don't shoot randomly at distant targets - that will pull them at you. Focus on things that might attack the person helping you. Other team members, pull zacks away or provide cover fire, as practical. Also, share temp health (and any other health necessary) to keep people moving as fast as possible.

4) Pick your weapons with reason. Your selection of a primary gun should be based on your playstyle.

Primary Weapons:

• AK47: If you tend to play point, get right up in zombies faces, and want sheer power, the AK is your best bet. It will kill things in one or two shots, and get good penetration.
  
  M16: If you have precision headshot accuracy and like to stay back, the M16 is solid. It’ll get kills on headshots, and has a higher ammo capacity, but it’s worthless for bodyshots – requiring as many hits as a pistol.
  
  SCAR: The SCAR or Desert Rifle is a blend of power and accuracy – it fires 3-shot bursts that all him the same target, meaning it can deliver a blow quickly, but it runs out of ammo fast. In a pinch, I’ll use one of these against a tank instead of any shotgun or scoped rifle.
  
  Military Shotgun: This is the short black auto-shotty with a folding stock. This has a wide spread pattern, and will utterly annihilate any close range hordes. It also can tear apart even an agro’d witch if you’re up close. It does next to nothing outside of point blank range.
  
  Tactical Shotgun: This is the long silver auto-shotty. It has a somewhat tighter spread than the military shotgun, allowing you to use it out to medium range with some effectiveness. Good for crowning witches.
  
  Auto-Sniper: An HK41 I believe, but nobody calls it that. If you want to play the sniping game, this is your weapon. Don’t be afraid to no-scope if enemies get in close, or for tanks if you get caught out holding this when one attacks.
  
  Hunting Rifle: The most accurate weapon around, but slow firing and with a small mag. It has excellent penetration. You rarely want to be using this at close range.
  
  Uzi: A basic spray and pray gun. It has slightly better accuracy than the Mac 10 / silenced SMG, and slightly lower damage.
  
  SMG: The inverse of the Uzi, it has slightly higher damage and slightly lower accuracy.
  
  Chrome Shotgun: A tight spread allowing for more stopping power at a distance.
  
  Pump Shotgun: A wider spread means you can hit more zacks, but they have to be close.
  
  Grenade Launcher: A special case weapon for which new ammo can’t be picked up. As dangerous to you and your allies as to any enemy. Use extreme caution, and don’t carry it if you don’t know what you’re doing.
  
  M60: A special case weapon for which new ammo can’t be picked up. Very fun to use, and able to use any upgrades available to other guns (including up to 150 fire bullets!). Don’t waste it on commons unless there’s a big horde – use your secondary, and whip this out when trouble comes knocking. It will stop knocking quickly.

Secondary Weapons:

• Magnum: I’m trying to be neutral here, but seriously, use the Magnum. There is no reason to use anything else if a Magnum is available, unless you are deliberately trying to make it harder on yourself. The Magnum will kill any common with a single hit anywhere on their body, will penetrate zombies to take down multiple targets, can kill many specials in a single hit to the head, and will readily eliminate even a charger with one magazine. When you go down, a Magnum remains in your hand, and even with your lowered firing rate you will be able to protect your rescuer against anything but a full on horde, because the one shot, one kill thing doesn’t change. We routinely beat maps on expert using nothing but Magnums for everything but the tanks and dire emergencies.
  
  Pistol: If you can’t get a Magnum, use pistols (two if possible). Pistols retain your ranged capability, which is necessary for doing things like saving comrades who may have been smoked from across the map or up high. Also, pistols allow you to engage enemies at range even if out of primary ammo, and even if you’re severely injured and can’t afford close quarters action.
  
  Melee: Melee weapons are for fun. They can be enjoyable, but are a terrible idea to use in any game where you are expecting a real challenge. They require close proximity, which virtually guarantees you’ll take damage, and they are useless for helping comrades anywhere other than right next to you.

5) Know your throwables. All three have their uses, and if they’re all available, all three should be carried. Always call if you are using a throwable, so your team knows what’s about to happen, and doesn’t use other throwables unnecessarily.

• Pipe Bombs: These will do minor area clearing and are great to chuck if you have a surplus of items, but their most important use is to pull hordes off of you that are drawn by being puked on. Pipes are the only thing that will distract zombies away from a boomer victim.
  
  Boomer Bile: This pulls zombies to an area much like a pipe does, but doesn’t kill them unless you throw it somewhere that’s lethal to zombies, such as in a fire (gas cans, anybody?) or off a ledge. It lasts longer than a pipe, but spawns a horde even if no other zombies are present, so be careful. Can be used on tanks to slow down their progress (they get caught up on the zombies that swarm them) and to do highlight them through obstacles so they can be seen.
  
  Molotov Cocktails: These are the ultimate tank killer. One person with a pistol and an open field can take down even an expert tank, if they have a Molotov. Also, they are perfect for covering your tracks in chokepoints if you’re making a last-minute limp for safety. An important thing to know about fire is that it instantly eliminates common zombies and makes them clippable – a flaming zombie cannot slow you down or block you. If you are horded and in a bad way, slamming a Molotov on the ground at your own feet is a safe and easy way to escape on anything but expert difficulty – the damage will be about 5-10 points if you flee out quickly, much less than you’ll take from an army of punching enemies.

6) Special Items and Temp Health can save you in a pinch.

• Health Kit: Everybody should be carrying a health kit if they are available. Never ditch a health kit in favor of anything else. Use all health kits encountered rather than leaving them behind, unless you know you’re coming back (Hard Rain). In campaigns, you should never use your health kit until you’re black and white, unless there is a replacement sitting there. You have free health until you’ve gone down twice, and using it before then is a waste.
  
  Defibrillator: Brings a person back from the dead. It has an application other than the obvious: if you are black and white, a long way from safety, and have a defib, you can deliberately kill and resurrect the BW party member. They’ll be back at 50 health and 0 knock-downs, ready to rock. This is a valid vs. tactic to make sure you get the person to the safe room (remember the defib penalty), but be very careful – it’s an ideal time for enemies to attack.
  
  Fire Bullets: One fire bullet equals one dead common. They are also useful for tagging SI both to call attention to them at range, and to get extra damage. They do less upfront damage than normal bullets, so do NOT try crowning witches with fire bullets in your shotgun. Also, fire bullets don’t burn forever, they go out after a few second. Never use fire bullets against a tank lit with a Molotov, as the timer from the fire bullets will override the unlimited burning from the molly, and the tank will be extinguished.
  
  Frag Bullets: We commonly refer to these as “TK Rounds,” TK for “Team-Killer.” Don’t even pick these things up unless you really know what you’re doing. You will kill yourself and your entire team faster than you can blink, as they act like tiny frag grenades, and shooting a common at close range to yourself or a comrade does full damage to you/them. The ONLY time I’m ok with seeing them used is at long range against a tank, or to take out a witch from range if nobody has a shotgun. Leave them behind, otherwise.
  
  Pills: Basic temp health. In vs, use them to keep your speed up. In campaigns, you can hold off a bit, and only pop them when you need the health or speed for something specific. Share them liberally! If an ally needs them, hand them over.
  
  Shot: Adrenaline doesn’t raise your health by much, but it makes you move quickly for a short while. Use shots in two situations: picking up a downed ally while under attack (you will lift them super quickly), or to move full speed in water when making a dash for the safe room. If you just need the health, use pills if possible, and save the shot.
  
  Laser Sights: Though they aren’t something you can carry, they’re worth mentioning. Lasers make everything better! They improve your accuracy both by the fact that they let you see on screen where you’re aiming in the distance, and by actually reducing the spread of your weapon. Always get lasers if available. The only warning about them is that, much like flashlights, lasers will anger a witch. Do not shine your lasers at a witch until the moment you’re ready to pull the trigger.

7) As a wrap this up, I would say to make sure you’re always calculating the effect of your action.

L4D2 is a psychological game – it’s meant to scare us. It’s environmentally eerie, it has dead things that want to kill us, and we never know what’s up around the next corner. Don’t let that get inside your head! Keep focused on how to handle what the game is throwing at you, and don’t worry about what you’d do in real life. For example, I tend to have high friendly fire numbers when playing on advanced. This isn’t because I can’t aim (well, only partially), but because I deliberately shoot at my allies on a regular basis. Why? Because when an ally is surrounded, I know that my bullets will only do 1-2 points of damage to them, but every zombie punch will do 5 points of damage. As long as I make sure to kill the zombie with the same shot, I’ve reduced the amount of damage they take. I don't deliberately shoot them of course (0 damage is better than 1-2), but I don't hold back if it's the only option. It’s the same as the note I mentioned above about Molotovs… throwing one at your own feet is counter-intuitive, but it’s better than being stuck in a horde.

When it comes to shoving back zombies, remember why you do it. Close range zombies mess with your aim severely, and they do damage to you. You can only shove so many times before requiring a rest, so don’t do so unnecessarily, or when nothing is near you. Shove, shoot, shove, shoot, repeat. After every shove, make sure to get at least one or two shots off, to reduce the number you’ll have to shove again. Don’t run up to commons and shove them – shoot the buggers. That said, when you DO want to run up and shove something is if it’s a special that has one of your friends! A shove will break the hold of any SI except a charger, while bullets will not. This, again, is a simple calculation. Your partner will take less damage if you spend half a second running up to them to shove than they will if you take a full second of shooting to kill the enemy. Just make sure to follow it up with a kill - otherwise they'll strike again.

Going faster? Reduces spawn opportunities, and therefore reduces damage taken.

Weapon selection? Optimizes killing of enemies, and therefore reduces damage taken.

Working together? Allows mutual coverage, and therefore reduces damage taken.

Reducing damage taken means you can go farther. Going farther means you get more points. Getting more points means you win.

It’s all a calculation. Keep calculating, keep thinking, keep shooting, and keep moving.

[TTHREAZ]

The biggest tip I can give for both campaigns and Vs. is to listen. Listen for Tanks waiting for you around the corner. Listen for specials spawning. Determine which direction they are in relation to your group. Listen, listen, listen.

As far as weapons are concerned, I'm with Al. I pretty much prefer an AK and Magnum over anything else in the game. The AK is solid when fired in bursts into a group and for popping heads with controlled shots. Throw a laser sight on there and you're set for the entire campaign. The Magnum is just absurdly overpowered when compared to the other secondaries. There really is no reason not to use one.

When it comes to survival, the only thing I can recommend is trying campaigns on harder difficulties. When common infected can take you down with a few swipes, it doesn't take long for you to realize what you should and shouldn't be doing. It's a rough way to learn good habits but it will improve your game immensely.

For me, survival is all about eliminating bad habits. If you ask someone like Alizee or Mortis, they'll tell you that I don't like healing myself when playing campaigns. Reason being if I know I can just heal, bad habits will creep back in. If I force myself not to heal, I become more careful with my health management.

[frostdillicus]

I SUPPOSE if the other two talk me into it, we could reassemble the Partial Wrecking Crew (Miss you B) and run you through some campaigns sometime.

Mind you, I will spend most of the time flat on my back because I'm pretty sure I have completely forgotten how to actually crown a witch.

[The Spanish Inquisition]

I think zombies attacking a biled Tank do cause damage to the tank so don't shoot the zombies if you can, just the tank.