Another Reason to love Valve, DRM related.

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Araris
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Another Reason to love Valve, DRM related.

Post by Araris » Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:13 am

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20 ... et-it.html

"Newell doesn't have kind words for the use of digital rights managements. "As far as DRM goes, most DRM strategies are just dumb. The goal should be to create greater value for customers through service value (make it easy for me to play my games whenever and wherever I want to), not by decreasing the value of a product (maybe I'll be able to play my game and maybe I won't)," he wrote. "We really really discourage other developers and publishers from using the broken DRM offerings, and in general there is a groundswell to abandon those approaches."

...

Newell's take attracted the attention of others in the gaming industry. "I think the problem with DRM is not so much the particular method used, but the attitude behind it. It makes us feel like we're all being punished for the sins of the few," Microsoft's Games for Windows Community Manager Ryan Miller wrote on his blog. "It is also pretty clear that most DRM is not a problem for the pirates, just for the legitimate consumers. These two factors combine to make a ton of bad feelings on the consumer side."

This is an arguable sentiment: gamers do care about the method of DRM that is used. Programs such as SecuROM (which don't uninstall along with the game) and limits on the number of installations allowed anger PC gamers. When we reported on the use of SecuROM in Grand Theft Auto IV on the PC, many of our readers pledged not to buy the game on principle.

...

What the industry has to understand is that gamers have the upper hand, as they can simply go to the torrents for a free version of each game that includes no DRM. Until publishers do more to welcome their legitimate customers as friends instead of treating them as potential pirates, piracy will continue to eat at profits and morale."

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Re: Another Reason to love Valve, DRM related.

Post by CastleDoctrine » Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:08 am

Good find Araris.

One part of that article brings up an interesting question (see the underlined portion):
While Steam is a step in the right direction, giving gamers the ability to play games on multiple systems without having to worry about losing discs or CD keys, some gamers have reported issues getting their games to work in offline mode, and worry about Valve shutting down the servers at some point in the future.
The potential of losing access to my legitimate games was one of my first concerns when first trying out Steam. Of course, every online multiplayer game will eventually dwindle in popularity as new games come out, and servers will no longer host them. But if Valve ever decided to shut down Steam, that would be like denying us access to our property. I would hope that if such a thing were to ever occur that Valve would have some sort of permanent transition to offline mode.

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Post by Plinko » Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:34 am

I am a big fan of valve and steam, I guess I'm taking it on faith that should they ever want to or have to shutter the steam servers that they would do exactly that, just broadcast a steam update that closes off the online verification. That could be a sticky widget with the rights of non-valve published but steam purchased games. I would guess it would then be considered abdandonware and someone would find a way to crack the online verification system.

I am sure if you could peruse the steam publishing contract they have with companies whose games they offer on steam, you'd learn a lot about their expectations.

I also wish they'd fix the bugs in offline mode, but it's still not half the issues I have with things like SecuROM.
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Post by JohnCarterofMars » Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:43 am

this brings to mind an issue i have been dealing with on an EA game. My battlefield 2142 disc is damaged(i assume) so that my drive will not read it consistently and thus not allowing me to play the game.

disc verification gone bad, is another annoying way of making sure a software customer doesn't ever by a product again.

Thanks to the pirates its a little more difficult for the legitimate customers to enjoy what they have purchased with their hard earned money. bastids!

I haven't purchased a game with SecuROM and wasn't aware of it until reading this post. I can guarantee that I will never buy a piece of software that only allows a certain number of installs before it becomes useless.

that is just plain silly considering how many times I have reformatted a system and had to redo all the software.
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Re: Another Reason to love Valve, DRM related.

Post by Agent X » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:32 am

Good read Araris, Thanks! is there a list of the SecuRom games out there somewhere? I want to make sure and avoid those like the plague.
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Re: Another Reason to love Valve, DRM related.

Post by Blooper4912 » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:38 am

Nowadays, I almost won't buy a game unless it is on Steam. I just can't stand the draconian DRM schemes (I'm looking at you, EA) put on games anymore.

[quote="CastleDoctrine";p="138557"]Good find Araris.

One part of that article brings up an interesting question (see the underlined portion):
While Steam is a step in the right direction, giving gamers the ability to play games on multiple systems without having to worry about losing discs or CD keys, some gamers have reported issues getting their games to work in offline mode, and worry about Valve shutting down the servers at some point in the future.
The potential of losing access to my legitimate games was one of my first concerns when first trying out Steam. Of course, every online multiplayer game will eventually dwindle in popularity as new games come out, and servers will no longer host them. But if Valve ever decided to shut down Steam, that would be like denying us access to our property. I would hope that if such a thing were to ever occur that Valve would have some sort of permanent transition to offline mode.[/quote]

Someone from Valve has said that they would release some sort of patch to remove their DRM if they ever were going to shut down.

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Post by Trinith » Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:14 pm

Yea I'm a big fan of steam too... I like the way it handles things and, for the most part, any issues I've had with it are when the developers of 3rd party games haven't figured it out yet (*glare* @ CoD4 -- though they've figured it out now and it's good :D).

As for Steam shutting down, it's been said above. I'm sure they'd do something... at least for the more recent games. Are you going to be all that upset if you lose your copy of half-life in another 10 years? I don't know... maybe the super-hard core collectors, but then again I don't think a digital copy of half-life will have the same tangible nostalgic factor as owning a duck-hunt cartridge does ;)

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Re: Another Reason to love Valve, DRM related.

Post by PhantomFighter » Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:49 pm

I posted about this on another forum, but I'd like to reiterate:

For a great game from developers who really get it, check out www.2dboy.com for World of Goo. It is an excellent indie game with a good price, and they trust their users. There is absolutely zero DRM! They simply ask those that purchase directly from them not to share the full version of the game that you download from them.

TPF

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Post by Araris » Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:38 pm

Mass Effect (3 limits)
Crysis Warhead (5 limits)
Spore (3 limits)
GTA4 (doesn't limit your installation # however)

Those are the games I know of that currently enact SecuRom on your PC.

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Post by Trinith » Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:50 pm

I bought spore before I realized what DRM was... never again.

It's like they want us to pirate. Is this some kind of test?

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Post by Rits » Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:14 pm

I know a lot of EA games do this now. I just think it's utterly stupid.
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Post by Shifty » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:10 pm

Here's a partial list of games using only 1 version of SecurROM:

http://reclaimyourgame.com/index.php?op ... &Itemid=11

It's a pretty extensive list, goes to show how many developers are using intrusive measures to stop piracy. A program like Steam is a absolutely perfect solution, because it has many positive features that outweigh its negatives. Its not intrusive and impossible to uninstall. I'd gladly take Steams functionality in exchange for it checking the legitimacy of my games.

The thing is, Steam only works because it covers a large amount of games. It'd be stupid if every game from every independent developer had a program like Steam.

I think one day Steam will be standard software that comes (or is required) with every PC game in the world. It's already going that direction, and it just makes sense. Thats what PCs need to combat piracy.

Its not like the XBOX 360 is not pirated, I know many people who have hacked their XBOX and only play pirated games. The only reason that the majority of people don't do it is because it renders games they do buy and want full functionality out of useless. Whereas on the PC, you can pirate one game (without modifying your system) and it will not have repercussions on games you do buy (and play online) legally.
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Re: Another Reason to love Valve, DRM related.

Post by Gizanked » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:55 pm

in response to shifty... i wanted to see lots of these dancing cats at once..


















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Post by Rits » Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:00 pm

Can't.....stop.....staring at the paws! :shock:
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Post by Agent X » Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:44 pm

[quote="Araris";p="138614"]Mass Effect (3 limits)
Crysis Warhead (5 limits)
Spore (3 limits)
GTA4 (doesn't limit your installation # however)

Those are the games I know of that currently enact SecuRom on your PC.[/quote]

Well damn, I was going to ask for Mass Effect for Christmas. :(
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