FTB: Building in a Mystcraft realm

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FTB: Building in a Mystcraft realm

Post by black_and_blue » Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:52 pm

So, I mentioned in another post my intention to try to do as much of my building as possible in a Mystcraft realm.

What I'd like to know is just how realistic this is. I realise that there are a few things that simply won't work in a Mystcraft realm (bed, nether portal, anything else?), and have no problem with having a small satalite base in the Overworld to accomodate this.

I'd like to have the realm be as overworld-like as possible. I don't really care too much about things that are purely cosmetic like number of suns, colour of grass, colour of trees, etc.. In fact, a little variability in this department might even be a good thing provided that it doesn't look too aweful (no black grass!). However, I'd like to have normal sized trees, normal ore distribution of all ores for all mods, normal biomes as per biomes o' plenty, etc.

I'd also be looking to move there as close to the beginning of the game as possible, because moving a large base would be a very big pain.

So, what's the minimum that I need to make this happen? Is it even feasible to make a realm with such specific requirements close to the beginning of the game?

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Re: FTB: Building in a Mystcraft realm

Post by Guardian » Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:06 pm

OOO OOO let me answer this! I'm planning on doing this mysefl!


Alright Short answer is Yes it's possible to rush to a Mystcraft realm at the beginning but it takes a bit of work and I've done it before.


Long answer:


So basically Mystcraft can create absolutely everything that the overworld can but there's 2 important things you need to know:

1. You can't create a nether portal in a Mystcraft realm.

2. Unless you have the symbols to regulate it, everything in a Mystcraft realm is random.

3. Beds still work in a mystcraft realm.




The first point is easy to jump around just use linking books to create a 2-way portal between the nether and your realm, you may need a temp overworld base or piggyback off spawn.


Second point requires a bit of explanation.

If you create the right realm, you can basically reproduce the overworld. However that depends on how many symbols you can use. Rule is, if there's a symbol for it, you need that symbol if you don't want to rely on RNG to get it.

That includes what's the world layout ("Standard Terrian" or "Cave World"), what biomes appear (Could be mono-hell or all biomes-a-plenty), underground features (caves, ravines), the color of everything (bleeding eyes blue sky appeared on me randomly once), and even the day-night cycle and weather. Ores (mod or not) will always spawn in stone in proper biomes though. You can scroll through the symbols here if you want a bit more info: http://binarymage.com/wiki/doku.php?id=writing:symbols

So basically unless you want to pray to the RNG Gods, you'll want to grab as many symbols as you can so you can create your perfect settlement world. The easiest way to do this is to explore "blank" mystcraft realms for "libraries" that generate in every age and contain lots of symbols. This isn't nearly as dangerous as it used to be but remember to always carry a linking book.



I did this last time with a bit of help from Checkm8 in about a day last time, if you and I collaborate to share symbols we could get each of our ideal mystcraft realms very early. I could even help you with writing it if you want. We just need enough symbol to narrow things down to make an ideal realm. I extend this offer to everyone else, if you want to live in an awesome mystcraft realm all I need you to do is help me find symbols. Trust me it'll be fun!

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Re: FTB: Building in a Mystcraft realm

Post by black_and_blue » Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:30 pm

So, the hard question now is whether my strict code of not accepting help from others applies to world itself, or only what I put into the world. Don't worry, I don't expect anyone else to answer this, it's a question I will have to answer myself.
8)

In any case, regardless of what I decide to that question, I will absolutely give others access to any pages that I find.

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Re: FTB: Building in a Mystcraft realm

Post by Guardian » Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:17 pm

I highly don't recommend going by yourself on this BnB. Finding key early game symbols is a pain especially features like caves, ravines, surface lakes, stuff you need for your base but must be explictly added. At the same time I understand why you don't want to collaborate on finding powerful symbols like Biofuel Block and Oil.

Why don't we find a middle ground solution.

Let's agree to a list of symbols that are "basics" that I know each other will want like "Caves", "Ravines", "Standard Terrain", etc etc. All it costs to copy a symbol is a bit of ink and some paper. Just so we ensure we can plant roots on a decent home on day one but we can keep the more exotic biomes and blocks pages to each other since we don't explictly need them in the early game.

Still if I can't convince you otherwise you can always ask me for help.

Also I previewed the update to Mystcraft to see what I could get access to. Guys Mystcraft now has all the 1.7 biomes AND the Biomes-a-plenty biomes! There's so much I can do now!!!!

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Re: FTB: Building in a Mystcraft realm

Post by black_and_blue » Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:25 pm

Guardian wrote:Let's agree to a list of symbols that are "basics" that I know each other will want like "Caves", "Ravines", "Standard Terrain", etc etc. All it costs to copy a symbol is a bit of ink and some paper. Just so we ensure we can plant roots on a decent home on day one but we can keep the more exotic biomes and blocks pages to each other since we don't explictly need them in the early game.
I'm convinced. As long as I'm not getting anything out of the realm that I wouldn't be able to get from the overworld, I think it's fine by the rules that I invent and impose on myself.
:D

BTW, I'm probably not going to be around much this coming Saturday, so that might take me out of a good deal if this early setup if it's as fast as you say. Should be around Friday night and Sunday though.

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Re: FTB: Building in a Mystcraft realm

Post by Boss Llama » Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:00 pm

A quick FYI, and request, regarding Mystcraft realms on the new server:

The FYI - Because FTB: DW20 1.7.10 has Biomes O Plenty, and this is compatible with Mystcraft, there will be an additional 70 or so biome pages floating around out there to collect. More fun for everyone!

The request: When searching additional pages, please widely explore a smaller number of blank realms rather than narrowly exploring a larger number of blank realms. Every realm created generates a whole file-structure and files on the server, and performance takes progressively worse hits (especially with corrupt ages). I'm already not sure about performance with this high-powered mod pack. Since the file structure naming doesn't correlate with custom names given to world books, it's a challenge to delete the unused extras.

Most comparable multiplayer servers I've looked up either strictly limit players to 1 age per person, or just completely disable it except for admin use. Those that allow players to do it tend to just issue a creative (all symbols) book to people to keep them from spamming blank worlds. Obviously we don't want to do that, but we do need to avoid abusing it. Chunk loaders for things like trans-dimensional liquid pumps, as well as just having people in multiple ages at a time on a regular basis, load the server heavily. Mystcraft is awesome! It just causes as much server load as pretty much everything else combined.
-Boss Llama

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Re: FTB: Building in a Mystcraft realm

Post by black_and_blue » Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:08 pm

Boss Llama wrote:Having people in multiple ages at a time on a regular basis, load the server heavily.
Is this going to be a problem if a large number of people each build their main base in a different realm?

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Re: FTB: Building in a Mystcraft realm

Post by Guardian » Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:28 pm

black_and_blue wrote:
Boss Llama wrote:Having people in multiple ages at a time on a regular basis, load the server heavily.
Is this going to be a problem if a large number of people each build their main base in a different realm?
Well last time there were 2 players in Mystcraft realms. CreeperHunter and Myself, I made a couple public realms and Creeperhunter settled in one with others mining and using the others for resources.

I made a personal rule that I'd squeeze all the use I could out of all the realms I created because between screwing up realms and blank realms, junk realms can add up. Some Mystcraft misusage was causing the admins to consider disabling the mod in the tekkit server before that and I admit I contributed a little to that >.> . I also shared my key realms I knew were attractive to make others avoid creating their own mystcraft realms that would largely serve the same purpose.


Maybe we should share the initial blank realms we create BnB to limit the amount of junk realms at the start. I know you hate collaboration but that would save the server some grief.

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Re: FTB: Building in a Mystcraft realm

Post by Boss Llama » Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:16 pm

black_and_blue wrote:
Boss Llama wrote:Having people in multiple ages at a time on a regular basis, load the server heavily.
Is this going to be a problem if a large number of people each build their main base in a different realm?
A "large number of people" doing that would be a significant problem, yes. Most people don't build in different realms though, so we hopefully won't have an issue with that. Generally we just have a hub realm that has portals back to the overworld locations of the various players, with an additional section sending folks to the assorted desirable communal realms. If you think of the effect on Vanilla servers where you can feel the hiccup when a person warps in to the nether, or when you're exploring overworld and they're exploring nether, that's from having multiple dimensions loaded. Each additional realm is an additional dimension, and compounds that general issue. It's manageable within reason, just something to be aware of.

I admit I am a little curious about why you want a different realm that is identical to the overworld, since that's lots of time and effort with nothing gained except server lag and possible glitches. Given the nearly 100 biomes and sub-biomes we'll have in the overworld, and the ease of long-distance fast travel, I don't see any need for that. I don't mention that to say not to use a realm (you're totally welcome to), I'm just honestly confused by it a bit. Either way, Guardian's suggestion above is probably best - sharing of realms and pages is generally necessary for the stability of the server.


As a side note for anybody who uses blank realms - make note of the number assigned to the dimension when you create it (don't give custom names to random books). When you're done with that dimension, if you let me know the number, I can make a point of deleting that set of dimension files to hopefully reduce the load. I'd like to avoid having to do that constantly, but I'm certainly willing to do it a couple times towards the beginning to let people get some exploration in. Definitely let me know the numbers of corrupt dimensions that you've abandoned - those are nothing but trouble.
-Boss Llama

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Re: FTB: Building in a Mystcraft realm

Post by black_and_blue » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:51 pm

Boss Llama wrote:I admit I am a little curious about why you want a different realm that is identical to the overworld, since that's lots of time and effort with nothing gained except server lag and possible glitches. Given the nearly 100 biomes and sub-biomes we'll have in the overworld, and the ease of long-distance fast travel, I don't see any need for that. I don't mention that to say not to use a realm (you're totally welcome to), I'm just honestly confused by it a bit.
Probably won't be quite identical to the overworld, might have two suns, blue grass, and a green sky or something like that. Just identical to the overworld in every non-cosmetic way.

Honestly, the only reason is because I've never built in a Mystcraft realm before, and the gimmick of "owning" my own dimension.

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Re: FTB: Building in a Mystcraft realm

Post by Boss Llama » Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:06 pm

black_and_blue wrote: Honestly, the only reason is because I've never built in a Mystcraft realm before, and the gimmick of "owning" my own dimension.
Ahhh, ok, cool. Didn't realize you hadn't previously indulged. I can definitely get behind that!
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Re: FTB: Building in a Mystcraft realm

Post by Guardian » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:34 am

black_and_blue wrote:
Boss Llama wrote:I admit I am a little curious about why you want a different realm that is identical to the overworld, since that's lots of time and effort with nothing gained except server lag and possible glitches. Given the nearly 100 biomes and sub-biomes we'll have in the overworld, and the ease of long-distance fast travel, I don't see any need for that. I don't mention that to say not to use a realm (you're totally welcome to), I'm just honestly confused by it a bit.
Probably won't be quite identical to the overworld, might have two suns, blue grass, and a green sky or something like that. Just identical to the overworld in every non-cosmetic way.

Honestly, the only reason is because I've never built in a Mystcraft realm before, and the gimmick of "owning" my own dimension.
I'm surprised your imagination is running as wild :P there's so much more you can do.

Also I did some research and discovered the following:

This page has some more info: http://binarymage.com/wiki/doku.php?id= ... ls_summary

1. Mystcraft now adds some Instability if you use "Bright Lighting". No more Bright Lighting mining in every realm you create anymore...

2. There's a couple new pages that do cool things. There's now a Amplified Page for world generation and Spikes which take materials, a new Grid form for biome distribution.

3. FREAKING DANG IT! Cave Worlds add instability now. They were one of my favorites...I was gonna live in one. I may have to improvise.

4. O ya and you can use all of the biome pages... all of them, all vanilla include 1.7 biomes and the biomes-a-plenty biomes, that alone exponentially increases the amount of mystcraft realms I can create.

Should be crazy this time around.

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Re: FTB: Building in a Mystcraft realm

Post by MasterChef » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:41 am

I have generally stayed away from Mystcraft because I know I'll mess it up and screw up the server :lol:

If I make a realm, it will be at a later date just for fun. But the main Failtress will be in the main overworld. You guys will be more than welcome to have any pages I come across early on if it helps out.
Image

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Re: FTB: Building in a Mystcraft realm

Post by Guardian » Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:42 pm

O ya before I forget, Black and Blue here's the pages we'll need not just for a "normal" world but really for a "livable" world. I've starred* the really really important ones.


-A Couple good Biome pages.
Biome-O-Plenty have stuffed even more pages here so this should keep me occupied for a while.

-Standard World
You can sub in Amplifed Normal or Flat and I'll be looking for Amplified but we need at least one to prevent Cave World from unstablizing things.

-Caves*, Ravines*, Mineshafts*, Dungeons*, Strongholds, Villages, Surface Lakes, Deep Lakes.
These aren't just important to ensure you have a decent underground but they also ensure Mystcraft doesn't throw too many wacky features in since your not specifying things. For surface lakes and deep lakes we'll also need a water block page which I'll get to later.

-Normal Sun, Normal Moon, Normal Stars/Twinkling Stars****
Unless you want eyebleeding ender starfields to randomly appear we really need the normal stars page at least.

-Normal Lighting**
Well thanks to the nerf to Bright Lighting we need this even more to avoid it and Dark Lighting. I swear they nerfed my awesome Bright Lighting, Cave Worlds on purpose.

-Normal Weather/No Weather
Personally I want No Weather in the hub realm and my realm but normal weather is more "vanilla" for you. Without this Eternal Snow/Storm/Rain is a distinct possibility on each realm.

-Stone Block*, Water Block*
These right here, are going to the hardest to find blocks that are the most essential since they're competeing with all the darn mod block pages. Unless you want EndStone or netherrack becoming the base of your realm, you need these to ensure you actually have ores to mine in your realm.

-Normal color pages
I mean, I guess we could include these but I thought didn't colors add to the "alienness" of the mystcraft realms.




I'm going to play around in Mystcraft first before deciding this but with my Cave World getting nerfed, I'm wondering if I want to live in a Mystcraft realm now is worth it with all the new biomes being added to the overworld. It's not like before where it was either awesome Mystcraft realm or boring 1.6 Minecraft Vanilla areas.

I still want to make a cool Mystcraft Hub area though like last time though, before I settle down.

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Re: FTB: Building in a Mystcraft realm

Post by Boss Llama » Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:12 pm

If I have the time, I'm going to try to go through the various mods and just identify the new trees, plants, ores, and metals, just for my own reference as much as anything. There are more than 100 new tree-types alone that we'll be dealing with, in every color of the rainbow, and thankfully we can use inexpensive JABBA barrels to unify ingot/ore types when there are overlaps with multiple tins, coppers, etc.

Also, FYI, I'm going to totally disable Morph. Anything that involves crashing massively destructive meteors on and around randomly selected players with no warning or protection is not cool. I may selectively remove one or two items, like the Angel Ring, but otherwise will try to leave things pretty much unlimited. We'll see how it goes!
-Boss Llama

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