RIP Nodar (Georgian Luger)
RIP Nodar (Georgian Luger)
The death of an Olympic athlete hours before the beginning of the 2010 Winter Olympic games is a terrible thing. The way he died is horrific if you've seen the video. May he rest in peace and his family has my condolences for their loss.
Now, onto everybody else in the world that are bashing the safety of the run, the steel posts that he hit, the designer of the track. I feel I have to stand up and speak for Canada in it's defense.
If you are not an engineer, and have no knowledge of this type of track and what would or would not make it safe, you have no say in the matter. I've read that the person who designed this track, also designed the track in Torino. He probably wasn't even canadian. The Olympic committee deemed the track safe, and hundreds of runs have been performed successfully on this track already.
Sure it's the fastest track in the world, but isn't that what the world wants? At least until something like this happens? We always want faster cars, faster planes, faster internet, faster service. Why would this sport be any different? The public gets what the public wants, only way to make it better is to make it girls in bikinis going 140km/h on the luge right?
And those steel posts, definitely not the best place for coming out of such a crazy turn, but you know what I think? Well you will. There will probably be people standing in that section while the race is being held. Those posts would protect the people standing there in the event that something like this were to happen. I could only imagine a luger flying off the track, and hitting people, maybe a father holding his 2 year old son so he could watch the race. Who knows? I'm not saying it isn't sad, I'm saying you can only take so many precautions, the track was approved, considered safe, but accidents do happen.
And finally you can't always blame the track. If you've seen the video, I was able to catch it on Youtube for the 20 minutes or so that it was posted there, Nodar went REALLY high up on that turn and came down at mind boggling speeds into the opposite wall. There's a video of an american luger that was made in January talking about the course, saying that turns 4, 7, 11, 12, 13 were the most dangerous. He also mentioned that less experienced lugers will do a move called "looping" where they go really high up in the turns like that. He said that those people would probably be the ones to crash. It's almost eerie listening to him talk about the run and then comparing it to the video, because he pretty much called it.
I know I might seem like a heartless jerk, but I just wanted to be realistic for a minute. Now comment away Villuns!
Now, onto everybody else in the world that are bashing the safety of the run, the steel posts that he hit, the designer of the track. I feel I have to stand up and speak for Canada in it's defense.
If you are not an engineer, and have no knowledge of this type of track and what would or would not make it safe, you have no say in the matter. I've read that the person who designed this track, also designed the track in Torino. He probably wasn't even canadian. The Olympic committee deemed the track safe, and hundreds of runs have been performed successfully on this track already.
Sure it's the fastest track in the world, but isn't that what the world wants? At least until something like this happens? We always want faster cars, faster planes, faster internet, faster service. Why would this sport be any different? The public gets what the public wants, only way to make it better is to make it girls in bikinis going 140km/h on the luge right?
And those steel posts, definitely not the best place for coming out of such a crazy turn, but you know what I think? Well you will. There will probably be people standing in that section while the race is being held. Those posts would protect the people standing there in the event that something like this were to happen. I could only imagine a luger flying off the track, and hitting people, maybe a father holding his 2 year old son so he could watch the race. Who knows? I'm not saying it isn't sad, I'm saying you can only take so many precautions, the track was approved, considered safe, but accidents do happen.
And finally you can't always blame the track. If you've seen the video, I was able to catch it on Youtube for the 20 minutes or so that it was posted there, Nodar went REALLY high up on that turn and came down at mind boggling speeds into the opposite wall. There's a video of an american luger that was made in January talking about the course, saying that turns 4, 7, 11, 12, 13 were the most dangerous. He also mentioned that less experienced lugers will do a move called "looping" where they go really high up in the turns like that. He said that those people would probably be the ones to crash. It's almost eerie listening to him talk about the run and then comparing it to the video, because he pretty much called it.
I know I might seem like a heartless jerk, but I just wanted to be realistic for a minute. Now comment away Villuns!
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Your comments are accurate. The course has been open for several years, without major incident. Accidents where the athlete is tossed so high as to leave the course are rare - so rare, in fact, that the German Luge coach said he'd never seen one in his whole career. In this case, a combination of the luger being severely off course conspired with a freakishly badly timed bounce once airborne, and did something nobody thought was possible.
This is a huge tragedy, for the family of the athlete, his team, and the sport. The scale of the event is not, however, something that could be expected. The sport is exceedingly dangerous, and reasonable precautions are taken, but the athletes know what they're getting in to. Just as with car races, when you push it to the limit, terrible things can happen despite anything done to stop them.
RIP Nodar.
This is a huge tragedy, for the family of the athlete, his team, and the sport. The scale of the event is not, however, something that could be expected. The sport is exceedingly dangerous, and reasonable precautions are taken, but the athletes know what they're getting in to. Just as with car races, when you push it to the limit, terrible things can happen despite anything done to stop them.
RIP Nodar.
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Re: RIP Nodar (Georgian Luger)
From what I've heard, many lugers have stated that this track is very difficult and technical. This combined with high speeds makes it inherently dangerous. The designers of the track have to carefully balance many factors when they design something like this. They have to consider the safety of the lugers, but they also want to make the track challenging . Then they have to find a way to make the spectator experience better. I'm assuming that the area with the exposed poles is a spectator area so large safety barriers would not be appropriate there. The fact of the mater is that it is impossible to predict every fault in your design. Another thought I had is that the designer of the actual course and the designers of the Luge Complex as a whole probably did not coordinate 100%. Perhaps the designer of the complex wasn't aware of the possibility of a crash like that at that corner and did not feel the need to protect those poles. Either way, I think it was an incident that would have been hard to predict and if the designers put safety barriers everywhere a possible accident could occur then it would diminish the spectator enjoyment. I am not saying that spectator enjoyment is more important than safety, but that both of these factors were weighed when designing the complex in order to try and find some balance.
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You don't need to be an engineer to know some simple facts which are that this course pushed the sport beyond what it had been before in terms of technical requirements and speed. The argument that if you're not an engineer you cant comment on that is silly; you dont need to understand how the course is designed to comment on the objectively accepted fact that it's more challenging & dangerous than other courses.
That said, I don't think the designers should necessarily be faulted either. It was an accident and lessons have been learned. It was probably too fast. Sure, it was driver error, but like many have said, errors in sports shouldn't lead to deaths. I agree with the decision to start the athletes lower on the course to reduce the speed.
On any course, the best athlete will win, so you may as well put the athletes on a course where the margin of error is greater so lives are not as endangered.
But, like I said, mistakes happen, and while tragic, lessons have been learned. Forgive, but do not forget, and learn. I agree with your overall sentiment that nobody is to blame.
That said, I don't think the designers should necessarily be faulted either. It was an accident and lessons have been learned. It was probably too fast. Sure, it was driver error, but like many have said, errors in sports shouldn't lead to deaths. I agree with the decision to start the athletes lower on the course to reduce the speed.
On any course, the best athlete will win, so you may as well put the athletes on a course where the margin of error is greater so lives are not as endangered.
But, like I said, mistakes happen, and while tragic, lessons have been learned. Forgive, but do not forget, and learn. I agree with your overall sentiment that nobody is to blame.
[quote="Dirty Dan";p="225454"]
The argument that if you're not an engineer you cant comment on that is silly; you dont need to understand how the course is designed to comment on the objectively accepted fact that it's more challenging & dangerous than other courses.
On any course, the best athlete will win, so you may as well put the athletes on a course where the margin of error is greater so lives are not as endangered.
[/quote]
I concur sir.
RIP Nodar
The argument that if you're not an engineer you cant comment on that is silly; you dont need to understand how the course is designed to comment on the objectively accepted fact that it's more challenging & dangerous than other courses.
On any course, the best athlete will win, so you may as well put the athletes on a course where the margin of error is greater so lives are not as endangered.
[/quote]
I concur sir.
RIP Nodar
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Error in sports shouldn't lead to deaths? People die every year in skiing , snowboarding, racing, even in football. Error in sports.... this has absolutely nothing to do with sport or human error. When you are traveling 90mph, even 80mph, like most of the other luge tracks, on a sled that sits 6 inches off the ground you are accepting the risk that is involved. The skiers that race Super G accept the same risk. They travel down a course at as high as 60mph on skis and they don't get practice runs. Back Country skiing and snowboarding is sport is it not? people die from that. They even die on public ski areas due to most likely carelessness. Racing is sport is it not? Half the time you crash while racing it isn't even your fault.
The only reason this has been taken as it has is because it was at the Olympics. A luger has died while preparing for the Olympics before, maybe in 1964, but I still think it matters not. The luge, skeleton, and bobsled are all dangerous. It's all the same track. And it's the Olympics. It is fitting to have the hardest/fastest track in the world at the Olympics.
I don't know the exact details of the crash so I can't really comment on how to make the track safer. I heard he hit an "exposed" steel beam. On this luge track, I know there is a concrete lip on the top of each turn, I saw a luger hit it today in qualifying. I did hear they rebuilt an entire turn though, but I still don't really know the specifics.
It is sport, and with all sport comes risk. Some greater than others.
The only reason this has been taken as it has is because it was at the Olympics. A luger has died while preparing for the Olympics before, maybe in 1964, but I still think it matters not. The luge, skeleton, and bobsled are all dangerous. It's all the same track. And it's the Olympics. It is fitting to have the hardest/fastest track in the world at the Olympics.
I don't know the exact details of the crash so I can't really comment on how to make the track safer. I heard he hit an "exposed" steel beam. On this luge track, I know there is a concrete lip on the top of each turn, I saw a luger hit it today in qualifying. I did hear they rebuilt an entire turn though, but I still don't really know the specifics.
It is sport, and with all sport comes risk. Some greater than others.
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Re: RIP Nodar (Georgian Luger)
Well here is the funny thing. They say that it was an exposed area that wasn't padded. If the excuse is that it was designed that way to enhance spectator view, then what a terrible judgment by the Olympic committee and the engineers. Those steel beams can be padded just enough for spectator view if that is what that is all about. This is like leaving an exposed beam in baseball by the track and leaving it not padded. The people of the ballpark will not leave something like that a hazard. Watch now those beams will have some sort of padding. Looking at those beams is kind of funny though. The way he hit them, he had absolutely no chance.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/1 ... 60474.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/1 ... 60474.html
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Re: RIP Nodar (Georgian Luger)
I was extremely disappointed that NBC aired the video of the last seconds of that athlete's life. Of course, anyone who wants to see it can find it on the internet, but that was disgusting and disgraceful for a major network. Just because you can see it on the internet is not a valid reason or excuse, if that was NBC's mentality. Can't we all acknowledge that children also watch the Olympics on NBC? Regardless, I guess my morbid curiosity was quelled by a sense of respect.
As far as the finger pointing, that's damn disgusting to me also.
As you may surely have heard, a professor here at UAH killed three of her colleagues, and wounded four others, because she was denied tenure on Friday.
Last week, an 8th grader shot another 8th grader in the back of the head because they were pretending to be in a gang at Discovery Middle School (also here in Madison County).
What in the hell is the matter with people?
I think I know, and it's only going to get worse.
As far as the finger pointing, that's damn disgusting to me also.
As you may surely have heard, a professor here at UAH killed three of her colleagues, and wounded four others, because she was denied tenure on Friday.
Last week, an 8th grader shot another 8th grader in the back of the head because they were pretending to be in a gang at Discovery Middle School (also here in Madison County).
What in the hell is the matter with people?
I think I know, and it's only going to get worse.
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What would it hurt to put Plexiglas infront of those beams? Then spectators could still enjoy while being protected. Hockey pucks can hit those @ a max of 100mph....that's a good shot though. They usually are slapshot on average 80-90mph.
Of course in the end nothing is a guarantee. Spectators will always take risks watching a sport.
Of course in the end nothing is a guarantee. Spectators will always take risks watching a sport.
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[quote="Rits";p="225501"]What would it hurt to put Plexiglas infront of those beams? Then spectators could still enjoy while being protected. Hockey pucks can hit those @ a max of 100mph....that's a good shot though. They usually are slapshot on average 80-90mph.
Of course in the end nothing is a guarantee. Spectators will always take risks watching a sport.[/quote]
See this is what a friend of mine who was an engineering major (for sake of saying anyone who isn't an engineer has no say in this) mentioned. Why not Plexiglas or the light padding they use to pad the fence rails in baseball not used on this track? I mean I have to say it will always be that until someone gets hurt, no one will use precaution or put measure to safety until someones life comes to it.
Slapshots fastest I've seen has been from Zdeno Chara topping at 100mph.
I've got hit on the arm with 90mph fastball... and boy could I not use my right arm for 2 weeks. I've learned to use protection on my arm when playing softball or baseball now.
I consider the Olympic committee much like the mafia. Their rules. It's pretty obvious when you have lugers telling the media that this track is a stretch and risking lives.
If someone can find a picture of the past Olympic luge tracks... I believe Plexiglas has been instituted in some of the tracks.
Of course in the end nothing is a guarantee. Spectators will always take risks watching a sport.[/quote]
See this is what a friend of mine who was an engineering major (for sake of saying anyone who isn't an engineer has no say in this) mentioned. Why not Plexiglas or the light padding they use to pad the fence rails in baseball not used on this track? I mean I have to say it will always be that until someone gets hurt, no one will use precaution or put measure to safety until someones life comes to it.
Slapshots fastest I've seen has been from Zdeno Chara topping at 100mph.
I've got hit on the arm with 90mph fastball... and boy could I not use my right arm for 2 weeks. I've learned to use protection on my arm when playing softball or baseball now.
I consider the Olympic committee much like the mafia. Their rules. It's pretty obvious when you have lugers telling the media that this track is a stretch and risking lives.
If someone can find a picture of the past Olympic luge tracks... I believe Plexiglas has been instituted in some of the tracks.
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yeah I definitely think plexiglass could have been used. But you also don't exactly expect an Olympic luger to leave the track in a crash.
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No amount of padding would have saved this guy (well no i lie...he would have needed 12.5 meters to release his energy to 50g's of force) so unless you have ever seen 12.5 meters of padding the guy is still dead...engineers can engineer all they want...the physicists will laugh at their padding "light padding" would do nothing...at his moment of impact (i used average weight of 175) he would have hit the pole with 12,891.77 lbs of force (this is assuming with no padding) bringing that calculation up with padding and you dont get a safe reduction in force until you hit as i said above 12.5 meters to disperse the impact energy
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Last edited by Cpt._Keyes on Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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[quote="Cpt._Keyes";p="225550"]No amount of padding would have saved this guy (well no i lie...he would have needed 12.5 meters to release his energy to 50g's of force) so unless you have ever seen 12.5 meters of padding the guy is still dead...engineers can engineer all they wont...they physicists will laugh at their padding "light padding" would do nothing...at his moment of impact (i used average weight of 175) he would have hit the pole with 12,891.77 lbs of force (this is assuming with no padding) bringing that calculation up with padding and you dont get a safe reduction in force until you hit as i said above 12.5 meters to disperse the impact energy[/quote]
This. Although it seems the wall they built is more for re-direction than dispersion, when I watched the video it was awfully sad, there really was no hope once he left that track. I do enjoy watching the luge, it comes down to a matter of hundredths of a second, exciting.
As for the rest of the thread I still can't get over the initial assertion of "engineering background to have a say in the matter". Probably one of the more silly things i've read trolling these forums over many years. If you want to share your opinions with villuns and then ask for a response, don't shoot them down before your even done rambling off some sort of "opinion".
It was a freak accident, albeit sitting in my comfy chair my first response was wow, that's a really low side with no protection off of a huge turn. Working in the medical field has made me more aware of potential safety concerns, but hey, s#$t happens.
This. Although it seems the wall they built is more for re-direction than dispersion, when I watched the video it was awfully sad, there really was no hope once he left that track. I do enjoy watching the luge, it comes down to a matter of hundredths of a second, exciting.
As for the rest of the thread I still can't get over the initial assertion of "engineering background to have a say in the matter". Probably one of the more silly things i've read trolling these forums over many years. If you want to share your opinions with villuns and then ask for a response, don't shoot them down before your even done rambling off some sort of "opinion".
It was a freak accident, albeit sitting in my comfy chair my first response was wow, that's a really low side with no protection off of a huge turn. Working in the medical field has made me more aware of potential safety concerns, but hey, s#$t happens.
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Re: RIP Nodar (Georgian Luger)
Unfortunately in many sports, safety is not the first consideration. It usually takes something tragic or a near miss to get an increase in safety For example, in Nascar safety was really increased after Dale Earnhardt's fatal crash because it brought the danger to the forefront of people's minds.
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