Custom L4D2 Campaign/Versus?

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Re: Custom L4D2 Campaign/Versus?

Post by YoullNeverWalkAlone » Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:05 pm

I missed Helms deep night back then. I would love to try it and new stuff with folks.
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Re: Custom L4D2 Campaign/Versus?

Post by NerevarineKing » Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:24 pm

I couple of us have played Death Aboard in campaign, but not in versus. I would be up for doing both in versus!
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Re: Custom L4D2 Campaign/Versus?

Post by Oddjob » Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:03 am

I've been playing a number of custom campaigns lately with Gruelsicle, Soltan, Sparky, Checkm8 and others. Feel free to add me.

We tried diescraper on versus about a week or so ago. It went horribly :D

I'd like to find some custom campaigns that play well on vs. Most of the campaigns I've played are extremely long, have long levels, too many tight corridors, too many insta-death spots, poor consumable locations, etc.

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Re: Custom L4D2 Campaign/Versus?

Post by kkpyro » Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:38 am

I have most of the custom maps listed here. Xorvious and I play a custom map campaign every weekend.

I was thinking that a custom map marathon might be fun one day. (Campaign or vs)

We could plan to play 4 or 5 maps...maybe need sign ups if there's lots of interest.

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Re: Custom L4D2 Campaign/Versus?

Post by Boss Llama » Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:44 pm

Versus balance is one of the greatest attributes of most of the Valve-made maps, which is lacking in most customs. Surely they benefit from being able to play-test broadly, but it's also just a best practice that a lot of custom designers, even advanced ones, simply don't take in to account. Most of the good customs are designed on a theme of sorts, and that theme is put ahead of balance considerations. Works great for campaigns, but makes vs. frustrating.

The biggest issues I usually see (and therefore, the things I look out for when trying to find a custom map for vs) are:

1) Segment length. If you take a look at almost any official map, each segment is actually pretty tiny. With no zombies there, you could run most of them in about 60-90 seconds, excluding delay events (boat crossing, elevator, etc), and 2-3 minutes all told during campaign play. In many customs, each segment is several minutes long when empty, and ages long in campaign. A good team of versus survivors should be able to get from safe-room to safe-room on a map with no more than 5-10 rounds of SI spawns, depending on the events in a map. At roughly 45 seconds for each wave of choosing a location, spawning, attacking, and dying, that's around 3:45-7:30 per map segment (with the latter only happening on the longest and most painful of maps). When we're seeing segments that are 10 minutes and more for a good quick-moving team... that's agony.

2) Suitable item spawns. Poor itemization is a frequent problem, with designers giving crap equipment (or complete lack of supplies) instead of providing interesting design-based challenges. Again, something that can be valid in campaign, but makes versus obnoxious. I strongly dislike single-spawn weapons in general, but especially when dealing with primaries. Tanks already spawn uncontrollably and often - limiting players to Tier 1s and single pistols for more than a single level is not fun for anybody, nor is providing only two guns for four players, or other such absurdity. Refusing to provide temp health and throwables doesn't make a map "hardcore" - it just makes it hard to tolerate. Especially when combined with problem 1, above.

3) Spatial planning. Very few Valve maps or map segments are composed exclusively of big open areas, or exclusively of small/narrow halls and doors. In fact, most are a pretty near split of each, alternating regularly back and forth with open areas that favor survivors, and confined spaces that favor zombies. This is often not the case with customs, which follow themes of "being outdoors" or "being indoors" that often translate as endless sightlines (player paradise) or continuous confines (zombie buffet). Basically, if you can't say "the next chokepoint" or "the next opening" and have everybody know what you mean, there's a problem. Arena design is also important. Though harder to define, arenas need to be designed such that there is no place for survivors that covers everything, and no tactic for zombies that is guaranteed to win. They have to be well balanced.

4) Spawning. Ever notice how when you play official Valve maps, the number of zombies is pretty much consistent from one map to another? Hordes happen at a certain pace, there is a certain density of pre-spawned commons, and pre-scripted tanks occur only in areas that are suitable to fighting them, and even the random tanks generally attack when hordes aren't present? It's entirely possible in fact that most people HAVEN'T noticed this, because it just feels right. It's well done, and fits the environment - it doesn't cause notice. What we notice is when something unbalanced happens, like a random tank spawn while we're in a tiny hallway with nowhere to go. Many customs do get this right, but there are some that really screw this up, having both tanks and hordes at the same time, or having horde events that simply do not stop.

I'm with you on wanting to hunt some good versus-friendly customs. There's much to be said for the terror felt in running through a versus match and genuinely not knowing where to go. On the stock maps it's just irresponsible to play without knowing the map, since everybody else will and you're hurting your team, but if everybody on both sides is equally ignorant, it's fun to feel that confusion and fear. Reminds me of the first time I played Hard Rain and had to crawl my way along the pipes in a lightning storm, with blinding rain and witches everywhere.

I'll subscribe to some of the ones you posted in the other thread and would be happy to help test them out.
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Re: Custom L4D2 Campaign/Versus?

Post by Oddjob » Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:49 pm

I agree with all of your above points in probably that exact same order of prevalence.

Another one that bothers me:

5. Poorly designed events and/or finales. A number of the custom campaigns I've played counter balance easier levels with insanely difficult finales. Yama was a great campaign (suffers segment length and spatial issues) but the finale throws insane numbers of commons and endless tanks at you. The distance between the gas cans and the size of the final building don't help either.

Back2School was a great campaign as well but it has 6 lengthy segments and a lot of unique/difficult events with little to no hints to help you determine what to do.


I haven't found a custom campaign yet that I feel would transition over to a balanced vs game but I'm still looking.

I think the best candidates I have found after reading reviews on length, pros/cons, difficulty, etc are as follows:

1. Suicide Blitz 2 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... =128428201
2. Tour of Terror http://www.gamemaps.com/details/2721
3. Blood Tracks http://www.gamemaps.com/details/2750
4. Dead Before Dawn http://www.gamemaps.com/details/2268

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Re: Custom L4D2 Campaign/Versus?

Post by Boss Llama » Wed Dec 31, 2014 2:51 pm

If I recall correctly, One Four Nine may be a decent one. Been a long time since I played it, but I *think* it was reasonable. Could be mistaken - need to recheck. Lot of comments about a gimmicky finale though. Dead Before Dawn is a good one. Suicide Blitz 2 is horrible - only map I know that I dislike more than Cold Stream, and is the one I specifically had in mind while writing problem number 4 above :-P.
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