My 2 cents on the server death

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kluge
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My 2 cents on the server death

Post by kluge » Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:13 am

(The other thread was locked and I had some thoughts on this. Sorry if this irks any admins)

I think the sentiment that Insurgency is losing players is correct.

However, TheVille died off while other servers are still going strong. TheVille had a large playerbase and stats. Not much else was installed. So when stats were reset, and when server levels dipped...TheVille didn't really have much to keep it going.

Meanwhile, the #1 complaint people mentioned here is spawn camping and TK'ing. Other servers didn't have the same playerbase, but they had mods like votekick/voteban, TK punishments, and death notices so you could call out spawn campers.

Of course, the game has its own flaws. But if TheVille were to run another server or similar game, I'd strongly recommend both having a good admin presence and installing auto-admin mods. I was always kind of surprised you couldn't votekick at the very least.

Cheers, and thanks for the great server while it lasted.

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Re: My 2 cents on the server death

Post by DeafOfficeWorker » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:19 am

If there is a good auto-admin plug-in on a server, why do you need a good admin presence? We had an auto-ban TK plug-in and spawn immunity running. The spawn camping was a different issue...

I hate servers that have votekick and rtv available to everyone. You have a vote for dumb crap come up every minute. It's annoying.

I banned some habitual spawn campers, but it was long overdue. I think the reason our friends from China were always around is maybe they had been banned elsewhere. I dunno.

Obviously other factors played a role but for that, I apologize to all of you. We like to give everyone plenty of chances around here.

Spawn exit camping is a debatable issue among players because of flaws in the maps and game play; however, we did have a posted rule prohibiting it.
Last edited by DeafOfficeWorker on Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Masakari » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:42 am

Honestly, while I never played Insurgency or ever had a desire too, I think having an autopsy report on the server is a best idea. Having a server go from number one to dead in the span of less than a couple of months deserves some investigation, especially if we're ever looking to make a server of that popularity again.
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Re: My 2 cents on the server death

Post by DeafOfficeWorker » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:46 am

[quote="kluge";p="147427"](The other thread was locked and I had some thoughts on this. Sorry if this irks any admins)
[/quote]

Always something to consider.

We had a thread concerning this issue. Why beat a dead horse? Perhaps there will be another Ville INS server when the next patch is released. Who knows?
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Post by Dog » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:15 am

I locked the thread because it had degenerated into a DoDS bashing thread amongst other things.

The stats did NOT kill off Insurgency. The stats were reset on January 1. The server began dying off before that. It went for three or four days, empty before the stats were reset on all the servers.

To be honest, any group of people that concern themselves primarily with stats and not the enjoyment of the game would find it difficult to set up home here at the Ville. Our belief has always been to concentrate on the fun of the actual game and not fighting for a spot in the top 50....

There were many things that annoyed us as Server Ops, with Insurgency. It is and always will be a badly written Mod, because it departs from the usual VALVe HL2 SDK, and has all its own events, some of which didn't even work, like player_hurt. That it made it difficult to write plugins.
It also crashed.... A LOT.
For no reason. Nothing mentioned in the logs. Nothing. Nada.

The existing plugins that we had on there were very good. Stevo ran a good server and did an awesome job. His TK-plugin was very well thought out. Those other servers that you talk of, with their TK plugins - that is his plugin.

Let me remind you that it takes many, many hours of work to get a server up to Ville standards. The Insurgency server was very well set up.

Votekick. We don't do that on Ville servers. Supporters can do it. But not the general public. There was an admin presence on the server. DOW or Stevo or others would sit on the server, but our admin numbers are limited and we couldn't always be around.

Insurgency has been dropped from our lists.
The 'autopsy' is over. The pubbers decided to go elsewhere and showed us no loyalty.
Let's move on.

If a new version comes out, we may look at putting up another server. Maybe not. Sometimes it just is too much work to be worth it.
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Post by Stevo » Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:44 pm

[quote="Masakari";p="147447"]Having a server go from number one to dead in the span of less than a couple of months[/quote]
It was more like a day. It may have been triggered by problems with the master servers, but we can't be sure.

Anyway, the game is unstable and deviated from the standard SDK, which made things complicated. Plugins that usually work on all mods had to be rewritten to work on Insurgency. It also crashed several times a day with no explanation as Dog mentioned. The server's popularity was really the only thing that kept it around, so once that was gone we decided to move to something that would benefit the Ville community more directly. Insurgency may return if a new version is released, and some annoying bugs are fixed.

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Post by BlackHawk » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:13 pm

While I have no direct stats to back this up, just from what I read here, I think that while Insurgency server was popular it was only popular with pubbers, and not many from this community directly. As a result when the pubbers moved on, there were not enough regulars to keep it going until the next wave of pubber came though
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Re: My 2 cents on the server death

Post by kluge » Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:16 pm

"The existing plugins that we had on there were very good. Stevo ran a good server and did an awesome job. His TK-plugin was very well thought out. Those other servers that you talk of, with their TK plugins - that is his plugin."

Respectfully disagreeing here.

The TK mods on other popular Insurgency servers allow the TK'ed player to respond in some way If someone TK'ed you, you could warn the player or at least see they were being held accountable. On the flipside, TheVille's plugin was only noticeable if you were doing the TK'ing (and half the time those people didn't care or didn't notice). Any TK plugin should also work for the people being TK'ed.

As for votekick, as broken as it is can be, something like it was needed when admins aren't around. And as someone who played pretty often, I never once felt an admin presence. (With all due respect to the admins- I know they did some things, but it was largely behind the scenes and after the fact).

Try playing on some of the servers that are full 32/32 around midnight. All of them have done more things about FF and spawn camping.

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Re: My 2 cents on the server death

Post by TheCarpe » Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:20 pm

[quote="kluge";p="147538"]As for votekick, as broken as it is can be, something like it was needed when admins aren't around. And as someone who played pretty often, I never once felt an admin presence. (With all due respect to the admins- I know they did some things, but it was largely behind the scenes and after the fact).[/quote]

The admins here try not to make their presence known on a server, otherwise people behave when they are there and then become llama's when they leave.
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Post by YevGenie » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:23 pm

Its over...let it rest in peace :)
If a new fun one comes out, it may get another shot.
For now enjoy the other servers we run. Dog is right, there are limited Admins on theville, and with all of the games we have on various servers, it is hard to make sure each has an admin at all times.

I played insurgency a few times, it was fun, but it was only fun for the 1st few rounds, then it got annoying. The general public seemed to like it, but they moved on to other servers, the creators will probably release a new one and it will hopefully be fixed.

The reason theville works so well is because of the people that play on it, the admins help control the llamas and the plug-ins help with the cheating and the rest.

Enjoy L4D, DoD:S, TF2, pvk ii, CS:S and the rest of the servers :)
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Post by Dog » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:53 pm

Like I said....if a new and better version of Insurgency comes out, we will try again.
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Re: My 2 cents on the server death

Post by DeafOfficeWorker » Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:24 pm

[quote="kluge";p="147538"]
The TK mods on other popular Insurgency servers allow the TK'ed player to respond in some way If someone TK'ed you, you could warn the player or at least see they were being held accountable.[/quote]

You're talking about being able to punish/slay/whatever the TK'er? I accidentally TK'ed folks plenty of times. It happens in a game like INS. Meh. Giving the victim a chance to exact some kind of revenge is just childish, IMO. It would be irritating to accidentally kill someone, apologize and then have them slay or punish me. If someone is trying to grief other players by TK'ing, do you honestly think they give a crap about being slayed or punished? Of course not. As a matter of fact, it probably just encourages griefers as it's a sign that the victim is upset. Causing anger and rage is the whole point of griefing, right?

Sorry, but I hope to never see a plug-in like that on a Ville server. It just encourages immature behavior.

[quote="kluge";p="147538"] On the flipside, TheVille's plugin was only noticeable if you were doing the TK'ing (and half the time those people didn't care or didn't notice). Any TK plugin should also work for the people being TK'ed.
[/quote]

The intentional TK'ers most certainly noticed the plug-in as it temporarily banned them from the server. I kicked and banned many in-game. Additionally, I would periodically check the ban logs, and permanently ban the players who were repeat offenders. Sorry that was not more "noticeable" to you.

[quote="kluge";p="147538"]
As for votekick, as broken as it is can be, something like it was needed when admins aren't around. And as someone who played pretty often, I never once felt an admin presence. (With all due respect to the admins- I know they did some things, but it was largely behind the scenes and after the fact).[/quote]

Most of the time I was playing under an alias, and doing my job. It was not "largely behind the scenes and after the fact." I was present on that server more than you. Maybe if a big ban or kick message flashed in the middle of the screen everytime I had to deal with a problem it would have been better. :roll:

The way we admin our servers is to be fair, subtle and not disturb the game in progress. The rest of the server should not be interrupted for an admin to deal with a problem. We also like to give everyone the benefit of doubt at first.

The spawn campers from China are an excellent example. I know it irritated some when they spoke on the mic. We don't have an "English-only" rule. Besides, I believe you can mute players from your menu.

I don't think they ever understood what they were doing. I kicked all of them at least twice before finally banning them in-game. It's a shame, really. I think they kept the server full during the nighttime and a.m. hours. I still feel kinda bad about it, but I don't really think I had much of a choice.

The problem with votekick is the same problem with some of the players. It is not used responsibly by pubbers.

[quote="kluge";p="147538"]Try playing on some of the servers that are full 32/32 around midnight. All of them have done more things about FF and spawn camping.[/quote]

No thanks. Say what you want about our server, but it was no where near the whining/cursing/griefing/racism/immature behavior that I see on other servers.

But then again, maybe INS is more suited to the overly-competitive, tantrum-throwing 1337 gamer instead of this community. Most folks here didn't like the game. So be it.
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