Gunslinger Engineer: Ins and Outs

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Re: Gunslinger Engineer: Ins and Outs

Post by Flaming Cheese Wheel » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:56 am

I'm debating the cost benefit of buying the bundle vs. picking up one or two weapons now before the craft restriction is lifted. So far I think I can live without them for a while yet, but the bundle is cost-effective (if you want both sets).
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Re: Gunslinger Engineer: Ins and Outs

Post by Zork Nemesis » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:12 pm

You'llNeverWalkAlone wrote:
Zork Nemesis wrote:Added a quick update with initial thoughts on the Pomson 6000, which is proving to be one of the most effective anti-spy weapons ever.
Cool, I was curious to get your thoughts after seeing you use it (and seeming to have some fun) last night. It seemed to be pretty effective on Barnblitz when defending the first point. Were you using it in the middle of Turbine or on the intel room? It seemed like we were all out in the middle and I wondered if it was still effective in the open space.
It's less effective in open space because they're small and slow projectiles, as opposed to a hitscan spread of pellets. You can dodge these shots, where as not so much with any of the shotguns. The upside however is that should your shot hit a medic or spy, they're going to feel it since they're less effective right then, especially if the medic is already charged or the spy is using the dead ringer.
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Re: Gunslinger Engineer: Ins and Outs

Post by Katotsu » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:28 am

I don't understand everyone's hate with the Bison/Pompson. Am I the only one that doesn't get hindered by the slow projectile speed?

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Re: Gunslinger Engineer: Ins and Outs

Post by One_Medic_Army » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:33 am

I like the pomson, not so much the bison.
The pomson lets engineers have a primary that's effective at longer ranges, whereas soldiers really don't need a secondary projectile as well as a primary.

For a mini-sentry using engineer though, shotgun+pistol is the way to so.
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Re: Gunslinger Engineer: Ins and Outs

Post by Zork Nemesis » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:27 am

Katotsu wrote:I don't understand everyone's hate with the Bison/Pompson. Am I the only one that doesn't get hindered by the slow projectile speed?
I think the hatred stems from the fact that the Pomson a very spammy weapon compared to the shotguns, and it's a super-cheap spy counter as well as a very annoying (and almost unnessicary) anti-medic. You can just lay down a spray of beams and hope that someone walks into the way, and if you hit a cloaked or even a disguised spy, you've likely just either revealed his position or removed his escape/panic button.

Also the fact that it's capable of hitting multiple targets, something no other engy weapon can do (not counting Short Circuit, which does next to nothing for damage anyway). I've scored a triple kill with the Pomson when I shot a critical beam down the vents in turbine, that alone makes people scream OP for a weapon handed to a class that's not nessicarily supposed to be in direct combat.

As for the Bison, same with the multi-hit projectiles, but soldiers don't need it when they've already got rockets.
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Re: Gunslinger Engineer: Ins and Outs

Post by The Domer » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:08 pm

This is quite a good guide. I've seen you play gunslinger engineer, and unfortunately died to it, quite a few times. I've tried myself to replicate your success, but have been largely incapable. Perhaps after reading this I'll give it another go.

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Re: Gunslinger Engineer: Ins and Outs

Post by Zork Nemesis » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:31 pm

Added a small blurb about the Rescue Ranger, I didn't test it with minis but on paper it looks like you wouldn't need it. Sounds good for support, but it's overall weaker and teleporting your mini-sentries is costly and dangerous as opposed to just a destroy/rebuild method. Also revised the Pomson section.
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Re: Gunslinger Engineer: Ins and Outs

Post by jettah » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:16 pm

Zork, you mentioned something about the Melee attack critting on the 3rd hit being fixed at some point? Any update on that?

Also, Jettah's .02c for anyone that cares to know:
The Gunslinger is currently part of my primary setup for the game. Engineer is my primary class and I have found an incredible amount of success with the GS setup I am about to share with you all.
I run 2 Engineer Loadouts depending on map and situation
1) Shotgun, Wrangler, Jag
1) Shotgun, Wrangler, Gunslinger.
That's it.
The GS Setup, and how I put it to use (since that's what this whole thing is about).
Shotgun: I have found success in my gaming career by keeping it simple and keeping as much the same as possible. 4 Classes in this game use the shotgun and my skills with this weapon will translate to those other classes as well. Shotgun does surprisingly more at long range than you think. I rack up assists left and right by getting even long range shots off at a distance to pepper damage and distract targets. For me, none of the tradeoffs of the other primaries are worth the killing power of the shotgun in close/medium range combat.
Wrangler: Since this weapon came out I have never used the pistol again. For all of the same long range reasons people use the pistol, I use the wrangler. I use the wrangler and a mini sentry at long range to take out level 3 sg's, snipers, etc. The shield popped on a mini is also a deterrent. You would be surprised how many ubers will bypass a shielded mini in favor of other targets. Leaves my small friend intact to deal damage when the dust settles. If my secondary comes into play, it is usually for a specific reason, otherwise, my shotgun does most of the work.
The Gunslinger: Everything Zork says is spot on, distraction, picking off the weak, creating multiple angles of attack, flanking, ease/cost of build, disposable, etc.
I will add that in the right hands, this gun can be practical in almost every capacity in this game. Unless you are a solo engineer on defense, there is a hardly a reason you can't make this gun work for you. I started off using it primarily as an offensive weapon, since offensive in-your-face engineer is the way I like to play. Over the last year or so, I have fallen in love with using this setup in other regards. 5CP maps, Push maps all have a fast-paced environment that is always changing and moving. The Mini SG is the perfect application for this on offense and defense. Your Mini SG can help hold a constantly moving front line as you push a cart and your team forward, or it can assist in stalling a forward push by creating a deterrent for the opposing team to push through a narrow door, or cuts off an easy route. Having the ability to constantly change your SG position on defense with a fast build time and cheap cost keeps the offense off-guard.
After falling victim to countless SG nests being easily taken out by a Uber Heavy or Demo, I have found myself alive for longer and my gear up longer as a Gunslinger Engineer. I can keep a dispenser close, but I don't lose everything when an uber comes in. I have faster recovery time and at the end of the day the longer you stay alive and the more damage you can inflict and buildings you can keep up the better you will serve your team.

I think that's most of what I wanted to add. Thanks for the insight Zork, I learned a few things I did not previously know.
Any questions, feel free to ask.
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Re: Gunslinger Engineer: Ins and Outs

Post by Zork Nemesis » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:52 pm

jettah wrote:Zork, you mentioned something about the Melee attack critting on the 3rd hit being fixed at some point? Any update on that?
Did I? I don't think I ever mentioned anything about it being fixed; it's been as broken as I remember. Hit/combo detection is wonky; it works against teammates, you can weapon switch and store the crit for later. Don't remember it ever being fixed and I don't think they see it enough of a problem to fix anyway. How often do Gunslinger Engineers get into melee combat anyway?
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Re: Gunslinger Engineer: Ins and Outs

Post by jettah » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:50 pm

Lol, I have run out of ammo once or twice...mostly in a hardcore close combat fight where all of my gear gets destroyed and I have to fight my way out of a bad situation.
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Re: Gunslinger Engineer: Ins and Outs

Post by Zork Nemesis » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:53 pm

jettah wrote:Lol, I have run out of ammo once or twice...mostly in a hardcore close combat fight where all of my gear gets destroyed and I have to fight my way out of a bad situation.
If you have the pistol equipped, you will never, ever run out of ammo. Seriously the Engineer pistol has more ammo than a freakin' minigun. Personally I think the Wrangler is counter-intuitive to the idea of the Gunslinger so I never leave home without my pistol as a result. I've always viewed the Gunslinger as a means for an Engineer to set up a flanking situation against opponents much quicker than a normal wrench. When you wrangle a sentry you lose that advantage and you also lose the reliable accuracy of the sentry in the process by having you aim instead.

Also, I have a disdain for the Wrangler anyway thanks in part to many pubbers who decide to use the weapon at terribly inopportune times. To me against competent players, pulling out the Wrangler may as well be a signal for you to start shooting at me instead of the gun and to move up since the sentry is now only as effective as the player's reflexes. It's like the Cloak and Dagger; I don't deny it to be useful and effective in the right hands, but the right hands seem to be few and far between and many think they know what they're doing when they really end up wasting time or reducing their productivity.
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Re: Gunslinger Engineer: Ins and Outs

Post by M's » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:06 pm

Zork Nemesis wrote: I don't deny it to be useful and effective in the right hands, but the right hands seem to be few and far between and many think they know what they're doing when they really end up wasting time or reducing their productivity.
I prefer to keep the wrangler equipped, and employ it when an uber is charging right at me and my gun. This allows the charging uber to run out, or almost run out.
Giving my team a chance to counter the attack. And sometimes that's all that's needed.

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Re: Gunslinger Engineer: Ins and Outs

Post by Zork Nemesis » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:17 pm

<eVa>mlite wrote:I prefer to keep the wrangler equipped, and employ it when an uber is charging right at me and my gun. This allows the charging uber to run out, or almost run out.
Giving my team a chance to counter the attack. And sometimes that's all that's needed.
I agree that's a viable tactic...with regular sentry guns. Mini-sentries are highly expendable and replaced in seconds however, so it feels like a waste of effort to use the Wrangler's shield to preserve a mini-sentry; doubly so if you're rolling Frontier Justice and would get revenge crits from the resulting destruction.
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Re: Gunslinger Engineer: Ins and Outs

Post by M's » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:35 pm

Zork Nemesis wrote:
<eVa>mlite wrote:I prefer to keep the wrangler equipped, and employ it when an uber is charging right at me and my gun. This allows the charging uber to run out, or almost run out.
Giving my team a chance to counter the attack. And sometimes that's all that's needed.
I agree that's a viable tactic...with regular sentry guns. Mini-sentries are highly expendable and replaced in seconds however, so it feels like a waste of effort to use the Wrangler's shield to preserve a mini-sentry; doubly so if you're rolling Frontier Justice and would get revenge crits from the resulting destruction.
Seeing as how I detest the mini sentry, I would never do that. But for a lvl 3 it works great. And if your fellow Engineer wants to be a helluva team mate, and tank the gun while it's wrangled; makes for a bad day for the ubered team.

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Re: Gunslinger Engineer: Ins and Outs

Post by cam » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:14 pm

Zork Nemesis wrote:
<eVa>mlite wrote:I prefer to keep the wrangler equipped, and employ it when an uber is charging right at me and my gun. This allows the charging uber to run out, or almost run out.
Giving my team a chance to counter the attack. And sometimes that's all that's needed.
I agree that's a viable tactic...with regular sentry guns. Mini-sentries are highly expendable and replaced in seconds however, so it feels like a waste of effort to use the Wrangler's shield to preserve a mini-sentry; doubly so if you're rolling Frontier Justice and would get revenge crits from the resulting destruction.
People like to guffaw at the minisentry on defense but a wrangled mini still has enough health and knock back to be a decent annoyance to ubers. I don't recommend it as a main strategy but if you have a strong team who knows how to stay alive then its a pretty good tactic especially if you have another engy on your team playing level 3.

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