[WIP] CP_Blitzen_0c
- Mad-Hammer
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[WIP] CP_Blitzen_0c
Have a new map I want you all to look at. No, it won't revolutionize the game. No, I don't think it's the best map ever compiled. I can't even proclaim it as original as I took the layout from another Valve map. Hence, the name itself offers a clue as to the map's origins. What I do hope is that it may be semi fun and interesting to play.
As far as feedback, I of course would like to know
1. If the layout works and
2. What kind of frame rates are you getting
If you have an interest and would like to take the time to look at the map, here's the link,
http://www.thevilleregulars.org/~web2_h ... zen_0c.rar
It wouldn't be a proper unveiling without a few pictures, so, I have some of those too.
As far as feedback, I of course would like to know
1. If the layout works and
2. What kind of frame rates are you getting
If you have an interest and would like to take the time to look at the map, here's the link,
http://www.thevilleregulars.org/~web2_h ... zen_0c.rar
It wouldn't be a proper unveiling without a few pictures, so, I have some of those too.
Last edited by Mad-Hammer on Mon May 11, 2009 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- l3eeron
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Now, Hammer, being a mapper, will understand that my next post is by no means an attack. Rather, it's a dose of constructive criticism intended to show love for the author
I see you have the entire map as ONE HUGE ROOM!
I have been trying to figure out how to optimize this beast....
If you turn mat_wireframe on, you can see every single thing is being rendered 100% of the time. We need to set up skyboxes and areaportals. Which means some things need to be shifted around to block vis etc.
It's coming along very well, but the nuts n bolts are a little loose.
...I'm working on sketching up a system to make this work. I really want to see it get a chance.
I see you have the entire map as ONE HUGE ROOM!
I have been trying to figure out how to optimize this beast....
If you turn mat_wireframe on, you can see every single thing is being rendered 100% of the time. We need to set up skyboxes and areaportals. Which means some things need to be shifted around to block vis etc.
It's coming along very well, but the nuts n bolts are a little loose.
...I'm working on sketching up a system to make this work. I really want to see it get a chance.
- Mad-Hammer
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Re: CP_Blitzen_0c
Being a mapper, that's why I posted it here. Better to find the flaws before I call it final.......which it ain't obviously. I don't understand it.....I have area portals, I have fog controllers.......I put fade on the props.....yet you turn on wireframe and like you said, it's a big open box. Optimization, once again my bane. Sigh, means more bulk but I guess I need to compile it with the hints and skips.
l3, if you have any ideas.....lemme me have 'em.
l3, if you have any ideas.....lemme me have 'em.
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- l3eeron
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OK Buddy, I decompiled your map so I can see how your areaportals are set, and I see the flaw in your thinking.
I think a better name for areaportals would be "smart walls" because most of the time they act like walls, sealing off the part of the world you dont want rendered. The beauty of the areaportal is that is culls the rendering. Which means it will only render outside the areaportal if it's in the player's line of sight.
Here's an example of how the culling works.
Take a look at this door way with areaportal in game.
Now, here it is in game with wireframe set to 3. The main thing to notice is that the areas to the left and right of the door (the areas I can't see) aren't rendered.
When you're setting these up, you should turn off all things that aren't world geometery. All we want to see are the things that actually block vis, like sky, world brushes etc. So go to your visgroups and turn off the following:
- displacements
- funcdetail
- props
- tools brushes (player clips, hints and triggers etc)
- water
Now, you are looking at the nuts n bolts of the level.... where the level is being "split" up (or isn't).
Here is a picture of the doorway in hammer like stated above. You can see the nodraw brushes are connected to the skybox. The wood is just plain brushes and the areaportal is touching world geometry (the wood) all the way around perfectly on 4 sides They (the nodraw brush and touching skybox brush) make a solid wall, entirely dividing one part of the level from the next, with the exception of the areaportal.
So, the concept of the areaportal is to aid in keeping things from being rendered that aren't in sight of the player by using the cull method.
Black = world geometry/sky
blue = areaportals
green = blocked line of sight(world effectively cut off)
red = ublocked line of sight (world not cut off, everything rendered)
This is a way to get your world to split, which can also create a natural choke point in the map.
In this picture the two areportals see into eachothers areas so nothing really gets culled, everything gets rendered.
Here's an example of a simple, practicle layout using geometry and areaportals to "turn off" areas not in the line of sight.
In that set up, only 2 or three sections can bee seen at one time. All the blocked areas are sealed off so the game knows that those areas are now out of bounds for your line of sight.and now the areaportals now effectively cull.
Here's how valve does it:
I hope that helps explains the mystery! good luck!
....Here's some good reading
http://rvanhoorn.ruhosting.nl/optimizat ... reaportals
I think a better name for areaportals would be "smart walls" because most of the time they act like walls, sealing off the part of the world you dont want rendered. The beauty of the areaportal is that is culls the rendering. Which means it will only render outside the areaportal if it's in the player's line of sight.
Here's an example of how the culling works.
Take a look at this door way with areaportal in game.
Now, here it is in game with wireframe set to 3. The main thing to notice is that the areas to the left and right of the door (the areas I can't see) aren't rendered.
When you're setting these up, you should turn off all things that aren't world geometery. All we want to see are the things that actually block vis, like sky, world brushes etc. So go to your visgroups and turn off the following:
- displacements
- funcdetail
- props
- tools brushes (player clips, hints and triggers etc)
- water
Now, you are looking at the nuts n bolts of the level.... where the level is being "split" up (or isn't).
Here is a picture of the doorway in hammer like stated above. You can see the nodraw brushes are connected to the skybox. The wood is just plain brushes and the areaportal is touching world geometry (the wood) all the way around perfectly on 4 sides They (the nodraw brush and touching skybox brush) make a solid wall, entirely dividing one part of the level from the next, with the exception of the areaportal.
So, the concept of the areaportal is to aid in keeping things from being rendered that aren't in sight of the player by using the cull method.
Black = world geometry/sky
blue = areaportals
green = blocked line of sight(world effectively cut off)
red = ublocked line of sight (world not cut off, everything rendered)
This is a way to get your world to split, which can also create a natural choke point in the map.
In this picture the two areportals see into eachothers areas so nothing really gets culled, everything gets rendered.
Here's an example of a simple, practicle layout using geometry and areaportals to "turn off" areas not in the line of sight.
In that set up, only 2 or three sections can bee seen at one time. All the blocked areas are sealed off so the game knows that those areas are now out of bounds for your line of sight.and now the areaportals now effectively cull.
Here's how valve does it:
I hope that helps explains the mystery! good luck!
....Here's some good reading
http://rvanhoorn.ruhosting.nl/optimizat ... reaportals
- Mad-Hammer
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Re: [WIP] CP_Blitzen_0c
So, it's been awhile since I had anything to say on this project. I would like to say that my initial "C" release was just a preview/idea map. It was poorly optimized (none) and it was my concept map. Since then, it has gone through much work, changes in layout but, I'm still looking for the right gameplay.
We've tested this as a 5 point cap but I'm toying with the idea of Attack/Defend, cart, or a 3 point cap. We tried it as a CTF but, I didn't like it.
So, for you 3 or 4 who ask me about this project, here ya go. Give it a look, tell me what would be the best type of gameplay.
You can find the .bsp here. This isn't no where near a final so yeah, there is a missing custom texture here and there.
http://www.thevilleregulars.org/~web2_h ... zen_0i.bsp
We've tested this as a 5 point cap but I'm toying with the idea of Attack/Defend, cart, or a 3 point cap. We tried it as a CTF but, I didn't like it.
So, for you 3 or 4 who ask me about this project, here ya go. Give it a look, tell me what would be the best type of gameplay.
You can find the .bsp here. This isn't no where near a final so yeah, there is a missing custom texture here and there.
http://www.thevilleregulars.org/~web2_h ... zen_0i.bsp
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- Mad-Hammer
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Re: [WIP] CP_Blitzen_0c
Thanks to all who showed up for the mini-playtest. So, unless anyone has any other suggestions, we're all agreed, too small for a 5 point map but we'll try it as a three.
I liked Stevo's idea for a territory control map, donner, kalt, flash. It would take time but it would be interesting.
Thanks to Silver for putting it on the server for me.
I liked Stevo's idea for a territory control map, donner, kalt, flash. It would take time but it would be interesting.
Thanks to Silver for putting it on the server for me.
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- SilverOne
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Re: [WIP] CP_Blitzen_0c
[quote="Mad-Hammer";p="185015"]Thanks to all who showed up for the mini-playtest. So, unless anyone has any other suggestions, we're all agreed, too small for a 5 point map but we'll try it as a three.
I liked Stevo's idea for a territory control map, donner, kalt, flash. It would take time but it would be interesting.
Thanks to Silver for putting it on the server for me. [/quote]
Anytime. Glad to help.
I liked Stevo's idea for a territory control map, donner, kalt, flash. It would take time but it would be interesting.
Thanks to Silver for putting it on the server for me. [/quote]
Anytime. Glad to help.
STOP FLAPPIN' THE YAP AND WATCH THE LANGUAGE ~Blue Ruler
Silver is Cheezylicious ~MErf
I bleed ville purple.
Silver is Cheezylicious ~MErf
I bleed ville purple.
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