[Suggestion] Warpath Cup 2012

[IMP!-6]

I suggest we have another Warpath Cup this year. Last year's was fun and seemed to have a pretty high participation level.

Here is a link to last year's thread with the rules for anyone that may not have participated:

http://www.thevilluns.org/forums/viewto ... 29&t=18847

The only thing that I would suggest to change from the rules last year is basing the two teams that meet in the final match on the number of wins they have instead of the number of points they score overall. I can elaborate more if necessary, but this being an initial suggestion post, I figured I would keep it short.

What does everyone else think?

[One_Medic_Army]

The problem with basing it off of wins is that if the teams are even warpath tends to be pretty low scoring.

[ketchuo]

You do relieve that warpath will most of the time end in a stalemate.

[Boss Llama]

Between equal teams, Warpath will almost necessarily end in a stalemate. Somebody winning at Warpath is pretty much proof-positive that the teams aren't equal. Only real exceptions in my mind are well executed back-caps.

[Plinko]

Not really, it depends on the aggressiveness of the team currently on the defensive. If they make big pushes that don't pan out, the other team ususally caps, even if they're more skilled. If the defensive team is very conservative, they can and usually will force a stalemate even if they are generally less experienced/skilled.

Also there are really big differences in Warpath play between 12 player and 9 player teams, fewer players makes sustaining pushes a lot easier. Teams in the 2011 Warpath Cup capped out far, far more often per match than ever happen in full server play on TV8 over comparable time periods.

[TTHREAZ]

Teams in the 2011 Warpath Cup capped out far, far more often per match than ever happen in full server play on TV8 over comparable time periods.

Nobody capped out on the Phat Bastards.

[One_Medic_Army]

I'd also like to point out that a large portion of the final scores of at least 2 of the teams came from rolling a certain other team in the official matches. In fact by actually holding the third challenger back instead of giving then an easy victory the 4th place team essentially decided who was going to be in the finals.

[Checkm8]

Somebody winning at Warpath is pretty much proof-positive that the teams aren't equal.

Proof positive? Do I smell matematical induction here?

[Boss Llama]

Proof positive? Do I smell matematical induction here?

Related, but I hedged my bets with generalities, so I think I'm probably using the much weaker probabilistic logic.

[IMP!-6]

I'd also like to point out that a large portion of the final scores of at least 2 of the teams came from rolling a certain other team in the official matches. In fact by actually holding the third challenger back instead of giving then an easy victory the 4th place team essentially decided who was going to be in the finals.

Agreed 100%

My problem with basing the two teams in the final on overall points scored is best shown by an example. There is one match left before the final and the standings look like this:

1. Team A 2-0
2. Team B 2-1
3. Team C 1-1
4. Team D 0-3

The last match is between team A and team C, with team C needing to score four points in order to overtake team B to get into the final. Team C gets rolled in the final match, allowing team A to cap out three times, but they still make it to the final because they scored four points by capping their second point at the start of each round.

Capping the second point after the start of a round is a guaranteed point in organized play. Should a team really be rewarded for this? I'm not talking about throwing out points entirely. The matches are still scored the same way, with the team that scores the most points in a match getting a win, whether or not they cap out.

The two teams that participate in the finals should be based on records. Points can be looked at in case of a tie, but should not be the initial deciding factor.

There, I've said my piece and will gladly go with whatever my fellow villuns decide. I figured it was an issue worth bringing up though.

[BETTEH]

IIRC CP2 did not reward a team with a point, only Mid and subsequent caps. With all teams playing each other you are guaranteed to play the same opposition and have an equal opportunity to score points, therefore the two teams with the most points would be considered the top two teams, and how last years cup was scored.

(also the two teams with the best records played in the finals as it were)

[IMP!-6]

IIRC CP2 did not reward a team with a point, only Mid and subsequent caps. With all teams playing each other you are guaranteed to play the same opposition and have an equal opportunity to score points, therefore the two teams with the most points would be considered the top two teams, and how last years cup was scored.

(also the two teams with the best records played in the finals as it were)

I'm pretty sure an initial cap on CP2 did reward teams with a point. And I know for a fact the two teams with the best records didn't play in the final match because I myself was on a 2-1 team that didn't advance.

[BETTEH]

IIRC CP2 did not reward a team with a point, only Mid and subsequent caps. With all teams playing each other you are guaranteed to play the same opposition and have an equal opportunity to score points, therefore the two teams with the most points would be considered the top two teams, and how last years cup was scored.

(also the two teams with the best records played in the finals as it were)

I'm pretty sure an initial cap on CP2 did reward teams with a point. And I know for a fact the two teams with the best records didn't play in the final match because I myself was on a 2-1 team that didn't advance.

Saturday 03/12

1st Match @ 7:00pm CST
Hades' Babies VS Team 3 --- Hades Won

2nd Match @ 8:30pm CST
Phat Bastards VS Fanciful Unicorns ---- FU Won
________________________________

Sunday 03/13

1st Match @ 7:00pm CST
Fanciful Unicorns VS Team 3 --- FU Won

2nd Match @ 8:30pm CST
Phat Bastards VS Hades' Babies --Hades Won

________________________________


Saturday 03/19

1st Match @ 7:30pm CST
Team 3 VS Phat Bastards -- PB won

2nd Match @ 8:30pm CST
Hades' Babies VS Fanciful Unicorns -- Fanciful Won

Hades was 2-1 and FU was 3-0

PB was 1-2 and Gib was 0-3

FU played Hades for the cup.

Also on a check of a PM you are correct on any cap grants a +1, however that is a moot point seeing as how the other team received the same free points, effectively nullifying the fact that it was capped.

[IMP!-6]

Round 1 Results
Hades' Babies 12 Points
Fanciful Unicorns 8 Points
The Giblets 6 Points
Phat Bastards 5 Points

After Round 2

Week 1 Results
Fanciful Unicorns 32 Points
Hades' Babies 15 Points
The Giblets 10 Points
Phat Bastards 9 Points

After Round 3

Final Results
Fanciful Unicorns 52 Points
Hades' Babies 22 Points
Phat Bastards 20 Points
The Giblets 17 Points

If you look at the point totals you can see that PB defeated HB by a score of 4-3. If you still have your doubts, I have demos. Speaking of demos, I'm trying to locate them now to see about receiving points for an initial cap on CP2. I could be wrong on that because I honestly don't remember for sure.

[TTHREAZ]

Yeah, we technically had a better record at 2-1 but didn't have the points to overtake HB at 1-2. Oh wells.