Moving on with or without tf2

[prang]

If I'm going to write an essay I should answer the original question! I've been playing Team Fortress for over 15 years. It hasn't always been my primary game and I dabble in others still but its something that has always had a place in my heart. I didn't play a ton of the Quake mod since the only maps we had were ctf_2fort and dm_square (literally a square with spawn doors on opposite walls). I have so many good memories from playing TFC though with friends, the Girlpower 2, and Spokane Team Fortress communities. TF2 has been a lot of fun over the years and finding the Ville and then dabbling in competitive TF2 a bit has kept me more than interested. I will definitely keep this game installed on my computer until Valve shuts it down or gives us a new Team Fortress.

[Masakari]

I dunno, you rarely see people exhorting basketball players to give it up and try out other sports just because it's boring to focus mainly on one sport.

That is the analogy Riot Games was doing for blocking league players from streaming other games, and it's a garbage answer (No offense) because it's an apples to oranges comparison.

Comparing videogames to sports in general is just laughable for so many reasons it's hard to know where to begin. Games are a form of entertainment, and saying you're only going to play one ever is like saying you watched the greatest movie ever and you're never going to watch another movie again.

(Also, for anyone who's going to call me biased, TFC was actually the first MP online game I ever played, which would have been when I was 8-9 or so. Games simply age, and compared to some of the more recent MP games out there, TF2 is honestly starting to look a little dated in more ways than one)

[Will T.]

Why on earth is everyone going on about this? Did he ever say "I will never play another MP game besides TF2 as long as I live, and you all are stupid for playing other games?" If he did, point it out to me so I can see where it is, then let it go already. If not, suck it up, get over yourselves, and move on!

[cam]

Whether its 4v4, 6v6, or Highlander the only difference for me between joining a comp game and a ville server is being able to predict the attitude of my teammates. Will the people I jump in to play with be interested in pushing the cart or standing on point? Will they watch my back if I'm holding a chokepoint? Is there any interest in talking to each other? If we get absolutely crushed do my teammates have any interest in learning what went wrong? Sometimes none of that matters but other times I want to hop on and have a more engaging experience.

I play at the Ville because of the times when a lot of regulars are on and the team is chatting to each other, both sides get their try-hard hats on, and the battle rages back and forth. I find it really fun and for a lot of people that is the embodiment of what makes the Ville such a cool community. I would argue that the Ville already has a bit of a "competitive" side but for a variety of reasons most of the Villuns are happy with dabbling in it here and have no interest in tackling the huge learning curve to get into more organized stuff.

Personally I don't see comp tf2 and pub tf2 as above or below each other. They are vastly different experiences but I have a ton of fun playing with loads of awesome people in both sides of the game.

[The Domer]

Why on earth is everyone going on about this? Did he ever say "I will never play another MP game besides TF2 as long as I live, and you all are stupid for playing other games?" If he did, point it out to me so I can see where it is, then let it go already. If not, suck it up, get over yourselves, and move on!

People are conversing, quite amicably. I don't see the issue.

[Plinko]

and it's a garbage answer (No offense) because it's an apples to oranges comparison.

[MasterChef]

Comparing videogames to sports in general is just laughable for so many reasons it's hard to know where to begin. Games are a form of entertainment, and saying you're only going to play one ever is like saying you watched the greatest movie ever and you're never going to watch another movie again.

lol come on Masa, you say his comparison is apples to oranges and then provide an even worst example. I could maybe see where that worked with a single player game where the experience is pretty much always the same. But even that could depend on which genre of game you were playing. When you watch a movie, you get the same thing every time. Even with many single player games you can get a way different experience every time you play it.

I completely agree with you that everyone should play different stuff to see what is out there. But honestly, if someone has fun in their free time playing the same game every day, good for them.

[Masakari]

lol come on Masa, you say his comparison is apples to oranges and then provide an even worst example. I could maybe see where that worked with a single player game where the experience is pretty much always the same. But even that could depend on which genre of game you were playing. When you watch a movie, you get the same thing every time. Even with many single player games you can get a way different experience every time you play it.

Eh, fair enough, I'll concede it was an over-exaggerated analogy. The whole sports analogy for gaming just really annoys me, because competitive videogaming (Especially TF2) is a slightly upgraded version of intramural sports at best - slightly above casual play, and realistically if you play comp games like that you do it for a bunch of different games/sports at the same time. And plus, isn't TF2 not really built for comp in the sense that like half of the weapons are banned in comp leagues?

I will say, in terms of stupid/funny MP shooters, I'm actually in a weird way looking forward to that Plants v. Zombies shooter, enough that I'd probably actually install Origin to give it a shot.

(Side note, I'd call this perfectly good discussion right now. I'm enjoying hearing from the comp side of things, and simply expressing my side of the opinion as a counter)

[cam]

Eh, fair enough, I'll concede it was an over-exaggerated analogy. The whole sports analogy for gaming just really annoys me, because competitive videogaming (Especially TF2) is a slightly upgraded version of intramural sports at best - slightly above casual play, and realistically if you play comp games like that you do it for a bunch of different games/sports at the same time. And plus, isn't TF2 not really built for comp in the sense that like half of the weapons are banned in comp leagues?

It really depends on your definition of sport. To me a game is something you play for fun and a sport is when you play a game you play to be the best. Your intramural reference is a good comparison but only because the amount of high level players in tf2 comp is fairly small. If you were talking about LoL or SC2 you'd have a tougher time proving that.

As for weapon bans it depends on the league and the format. In 6v6 there are a lot of weapon bans because blah blah blah reasons. It's one of the biggest complaints in the comp community that the most "legitimate" format alienates new people from joining it because of arbitrary restrictions on weapons and classes. In the highlander format which is 9v9 one of each class, weapons are only banned when they are broken (either op or actually bugged) or when they would force your opponent to use the same weapon to keep up (ie the vitasaw).

Sorry for typos. I'm on my phone.

[Soltan]

I just play TF2 for the ubersaw killing.

[Plinko]

But seriously, getting into 6s TF2 has really helped me enjoy the game again and really extended it's life for me. Yes, you can play as many e-sports as you want, but being competent at any of them requires a lot of work. Just like being good at basketball or tennis or chess requires a lot more than just showing up and going through the motions.

Say what you want, but TF2 is the first game that the competitive scene made any sense to me to be more like an e-sport (well, except some RTS stuff that I simply don't have the reflexes/micro to do). It's not like Quake where it's all just DM, there's actually a lot of strategic consideration you have to manage individually and as a team at all times to succeed.

Anyway, the important thing I will say once more since I say it whenever the subject comes up - video games are pretty crappy at telling stories, so consuming them for that has little interest for me. Very few games have interesting mechanisms that hold any lasting interest for me at all to keep playing with. So, now I tend to play very few games a lot, and trying out a lot of games a little. Very few make the cut into even playing to completion much less being replayed.

[jettah]

I think i first mentioned Basketball in this thread as a point of comparison and I want to clarify what that comparison means to me.

I would much rather spend my weekends playing a game that continues to evolve and has a larger player base than a game like Basketball. I drive by a local park with a basketball court every saturday on my way home from the grocery store. There is always a Pick up game going on between whoever randomly shows up. Not everyone who loves to play a game had to be pro, some guys just want to show up on the weekend and play a little. I know people who have been playing the same game "basketball" for decades and still enjoy it, so why can't a video game that keeps evolving have a similar expectation?
Slam ball or whatever that game with the trampolines was came out, and then died because people were interested in staying with something that had familiarity and a history with them, and was a well constructed game.

I started playing TFC in 2000, and it was my first PC FPS, and first Multiplayer experience. I played some competitive for a season but mostly pubbed around and had a blast. Counterstrike came calling and the TFC servers were dying so I switched over to continue playing competitively. CS got me through college and playing on college wideband lines before Napster became a thing was glorious. My CS career ended when Modern Warfare and then TF2 were released. I have never looked back because CS never changed much (except nerfing the AWP). Once TF2 came out I realized how much I originally loved TFC because of the spawns, the larger team style, and no need to ever run a pistol round again because you have to utilize buying strategies.

/end rant

[Masakari]

Anyway, the important thing I will say once more since I say it whenever the subject comes up - video games are pretty crappy at telling stories, so consuming them for that has little interest for me. Very few games have interesting mechanisms that hold any lasting interest for me at all to keep playing with. So, now I tend to play very few games a lot, and trying out a lot of games a little. Very few make the cut into even playing to completion much less being replayed.

I could argue this, but I'll leave it alone to ask you and others this: why not try other MP exclusive games with a more competitive style (See: Awesomenauts, SMNC back when it was good, etc.) if that's the style of MP games you like?

[trilobite]

Looking at the game alone as a package, TF2 itself has a certain appeal; a certain charm. Its comic book characters and ingenious class system are outstanding. We all understand this. But what determines the quality of my experience is the mix of players on the map. As long as there are players on both sides with decent skills trying hard and beating the crap out of each other for 15 minutes a go, I will have a good time, and I will continue playing. Obviously I don’t really care about innovative enhancements to the game, having logged over 2000 hours on Dustbowl alone, for cryin' out loud. So, Valve and the community can add all the new hats and crates they want. It won’t matter to me. As long as both teams on any map are trying their hardest to win the campaign, TF2 will be a gratifying experience. When and if that stops happening, I’ll probably move on.

PS. Occasional goofing off on the map is also allowed...

[Supreveio]

I could argue this, but I'll leave it alone to ask you and others this: why not try other MP exclusive games with a more competitive style (See: Awesomenauts, SMNC back when it was good, etc.) if that's the style of MP games you like?

MOBAs are the worst genre of game.