Removal of maps from TV7: Some maps should be protected!

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Removal of maps from TV7: Some maps should be protected!

Post by black_and_blue » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:37 am

I noted that a number of people have been voting to remove dustbowl from TV7.

I think there are certain maps that really do need to be protected from removal, and dustbowl is one of them.

At its core, TV7 is supposed to be a rotation of popular maps. There's a reason that TV7 is still alive and TV1 no longer exists as a TF2 server. While I am fully aware that dustbowl is an unpopular map with a large number of forum-visiting Villuns, we have to remember that a large percentage of the TV7 population never visits the forums. If we lose the non-forum visiting pubbers, the server will die.

I'm pretty sure that dustbowl is the single most popular map with the general pubber masses.

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Re: Removal of maps from TV7: Some maps should be protected!

Post by YoullNeverWalkAlone » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:05 am

Badwater is probably in that same vein. I use badwater when I'm trying to seed the map as it seems to draw a good crowd in fairly quickly.
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Re: Removal of maps from TV7: Some maps should be protected!

Post by Boss Llama » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:05 am

I would concur, and not because I love Dustbowl (which I do). It and Badwater at the two best seeding maps I'm aware of, for exactly the reasons B&B mentions.

There are other maps that need not to get voted on if we actually want it to succeed.
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Re: Removal of maps from TV7: Some maps should be protected!

Post by MateoTheBold! » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:21 am

Other people have already stated the good reasons to keep it, but on a side note I find it interesting to see how the map plays with TV7 regulars vs TV6 regulars. Beyond the engy limit being different, the map plays markedly different.
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Re: Removal of maps from TV7: Some maps should be protected!

Post by The Domer » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:36 am

MateoTheBold! wrote:Other people have already stated the good reasons to keep it, but on a side note I find it interesting to see how the map plays with TV7 regulars vs TV6 regulars. Beyond the engy limit being different, the map plays markedly different.
I think that's partially a combination of the sort of meta-game that the TV6ers have established for how to play the map, and also partly because of the different re-spawn timers.

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Re: Removal of maps from TV7: Some maps should be protected!

Post by prang » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:59 am

I was really surprised to see Dustbowl getting votes this month. I know it can be frustrating for people if the two active servers are TV6 and TV7 is on Dustbowl but generally the servers are full for a reason. The idea behind the monthly vote was to strengthen the rotation and keep regulars interested through map changes. We have maps in the rotation that regularly kill the server population. In the last 3 months we've added 2fort, gravelpit, gullywash, and granary. Personally I have fun on all of these maps but playing these on TV7 there are almost always more random pub players than regulars. This is just my opinion but I think the rotation right now is the weakest its been since I started playing there, and the second most popular map is on the chopping block.

I whined last month to get fastlane removed so I understand that everyone has their own dreaded maps and favorites. I've seen a lot of votes for Thundermountain over the past few months so that was my first choice but I changed my vote the other day to try to keep dustbowl alive on TV7. I think in the past we have done a good job voting off weaker maps like hoodoo and turbine. Right now though we either need more people to vote and let us know their opinion so that the broader trends show up or we need a better understanding of the server's population stats - what maps actually drive people to the disconnect button?

Ville members should be all the protection that the strong maps need. Go vote if you haven't already, let the admins know how you think we can make TV7 stronger and more fun.
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Re: Removal of maps from TV7: Some maps should be protected!

Post by Stevo » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:06 pm

Common sense overrides your votes. A vote for Dustbowl is a wasted vote.

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Re: Removal of maps from TV7: Some maps should be protected!

Post by OmgOhnoes » Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:12 pm

If that's the position the council takes then it's unfortunate they include it in a topic which is meant to change the map rotation. The assumption would be that the maps contained within that list are up for vote.
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Re: Removal of maps from TV7: Some maps should be protected!

Post by XxOtaruxX » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:15 pm

I was told originally that Dustbowl was the first in the rotation because since so many regulars play it, it is easier to get a lot of the regulars to seed it quicker. I always thought of it on TV7 as more of a seeding map than a competitive one.
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Re: Removal of maps from TV7: Some maps should be protected!

Post by F13ND » Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:33 pm

Although I do love dustbowl and would like to see it stay, I can't remember participating in any recent seeds being done on dustbowl.
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Re: Removal of maps from TV7: Some maps should be protected!

Post by Katotsu » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:11 pm

As the first person who voted against Dustbowl, I feel that this is directed primarily against me. Yes I know that lots of people like Dustbowl, so much so that we have a server devoted solely to that map. However, this is not that server. The point of the vote is to see what map people don't like and get a new one, yes? Well, of every map on the rotation right now, Dustbowl is the only map that I don't like. I dislike it so much, I leave the server when it shows up. The only other map that does that is Turbine. If this vote is to try and make the server keep people, I hardly see how my vote is wasted.

Also:
Stevo wrote:Common sense overrides your votes. A vote for Dustbowl is a wasted vote.
Doing this makes me believe you don't really care to hear what we say. You're directly telling me that I don't matter. Isn't that against what the Ville is about?

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Re: Removal of maps from TV7: Some maps should be protected!

Post by ShiftyDevil » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:41 pm

Katotsu wrote:As the first person who voted against Dustbowl, I feel that this is directed primarily against me. Yes I know that lots of people like Dustbowl, so much so that we have a server devoted solely to that map. However, this is not that server. The point of the vote is to see what map people don't like and get a new one, yes? Well, of every map on the rotation right now, Dustbowl is the only map that I don't like. I dislike it so much, I leave the server when it shows up. The only other map that does that is Turbine. If this vote is to try and make the server keep people, I hardly see how my vote is wasted.

Also:
Stevo wrote:Common sense overrides your votes. A vote for Dustbowl is a wasted vote.
Doing this makes me believe you don't really care to hear what we say. You're directly telling me that I don't matter. Isn't that against what the Ville is about?
No one is saying your vote doesn't matter. However, Dustbowl is one of the most popular maps, which is why Stevo was suggesting that voting against it probably isn't going to do much since it's so popular with so many people.
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Re: Removal of maps from TV7: Some maps should be protected!

Post by Stevo » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:09 pm

The goal of the voting is to provide suggestions for some variety. I will veto any changes that I believe would be detrimental to the server population. Removing Dustbowl is an obvious example. I already made the mistake of allowing ctf_sawmill to be added for a month.

Another thing to consider is the fact that the results of the vote reflects the opinions of a very small segment of the server population. Your vote does matter. It just holds less weight than other factors.

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Re: Removal of maps from TV7: Some maps should be protected!

Post by cam » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:35 pm

Can we override the veto with a two thirds vote from both house and the senate? :mrgreen:

I'll show myself out.

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Re: Removal of maps from TV7: Some maps should be protected!

Post by Zork Nemesis » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:37 pm

I am a mummy wrote:Can we override the veto with a two thirds vote from both house and the senate?
But that's never happened.
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