TV7 Rotation Map Cycle

[cam]

Can we change the rotation up? It would be awesome if we could have some new maps and drop some of the server emptying ones.

[NerevarineKing]

Hightower!

[OmgOhnoes]

Can we change the rotation up? It would be awesome if we could have some new maps and drop some of the server emptying ones.

Some of the maps only empty the server because they have too many rounds or are too long. People get tired after the first roll or lengthy round.

Guess i should include that some of the old maps we've removed would be great and even a vote for next map so we actually play maps the majority of the server wants.

[The Domer]

I was actually going to make a post about this, but it looks like Mummy beat me to it. I'm going to hijack the thread and post it anyway.

I love playing on The Ville servers. There is a much higher level of skill, teamwork, and maturity on our servers than on any other community's servers that I've ever played on. But that doesn't mean we've got a perfect system. In fact, there are several major issues I want to talk about. Primarily, I'm concerned with TV7. I've spoken with quite a few people who play on TV7 over the past couple of months, and there is a strong consensus that some change would be greatly appreciated. I know that change can be slow in coming on Ville servers, and often only in small parcels when it does occur. So, with that in mind, I'm going to do my best to systemically list some changes that could be beneficial and provide logical arguments; from there, it's up to the community to decide what is best for everyone.


Problem 1a): Map List
There are 34 official TF2 maps that are eligible to be played on a rotation server that does not include king of the hill, event maps, custom maps, or arena maps. Currently, TV7's rotation includes only 13 of them, or 39%. I understand why some maps have been removed from the server. Ville server admins have looked at server statistics and noticed which maps were playing when the servers were depopulated. It's a logic that has some sense, though it's also flawed due to a number of confounds. Some of those confounds include time of day, order in the rotation, evenness of teams, etc. But, there are a lot of maps that are really fun to play that regulars of TV7 are never going to get to play. Sure some of them are less popular, but that doesn't mean people never want to play them. If a consensus of folks want a round or two of Hydro, why not let them?

Problem 1b): Rotation
One of the potential confounds that I listed in the previous section is map order in the rotation. As it is now, the same maps are always played in the same order, and whenever the server is restarted, it always starts on Dustbowl. First, why does it start on Dustbowl? We already have a 24/7 Dustbowl server. Second, some maps may prove more (or less) popular depending on the previously played map. For instance, after a grueling 30 minute stalemate on Freight, many people might not want to play another map that tends to stalemate. There is not much that can be done about time of day, other than keeping in mind when people tend to play (i.e., the evening, especially west coast evenings given the server's location). Team balance is an issue as well, but not of primary importance to this discussion. That leaves us with the rotation, which we can work to improve.

Solution
I believe both of the aforementioned issues can be alleviated with one simple change: a map vote. There are a couple of ways to implement this. One common method found on other servers is "rock the vote," wherein if enough people (usually it requires a majority) type RTV, then a map vote is initiated. This gives the players power to change a map if it's stalemating, unbalanced, or if people simply don't want to play on it. Another method, and probably a preferred method if I understand the Villun mentality, is to have a map vote at the end of the round to determine the next map. On servers with this enabled, a pop-up happens within the last couple of minutes of the map allowing for a vote of the next map. Usually there are approximately 5 options, with the first option being the next map in the rotation (and there is some evidence that the first option listed is usually the one chosen, thus we would mainly be sticking to the usual rotation). The other map options can be determined several ways. One option is to just have them be the next couple of maps in the rotation. This could let people skip unpopular maps. Another option would be to have it list random maps from the rotation. A final option would be to allow players to nominate maps from the rotation to appear in the list. Any of these options could work well. I would also suggest that no map can be played (or even listed in the map-vote) within a certain number of map cycles from itself, say 5.

Adding a map vote would allow TV7 regulars more power to choose the maps they get to play. More importantly, it would allow for many of the "retired" maps to be played again, even if only infrequently. In fact, the rotation does not even necessarily need to change, as long as the "retired" maps are available in the map vote. This way we stick to the Ville approved map rotation, yet still have some flexibility when desired.

Problem 2: TV2 Custom Maps & TV3 King of the HIill
When is the last time you've seen either of these servers seeded more than once in a week? And more importantly, more than when is was done as a special round-up of Ville folks that fizzled after those folks left? There are a lot of great maps on both of these servers that are rarely getting played - yet these servers are still costing the server owners each month.

Solution
I honestly don't know if this is a good idea or not, but what if we considered adding in some of the more popular King of the Hill maps into TV7's rotation? Some of these maps, like Harvest, Lakeside, and Viaduct are really fun to play once in a while.

[Larry]

Im a fan of shaking it up. Also, sprinking in some KOTH would be chill.

[Inner]

Good points Domer.

[ADevilishPotato]

Totally agree with the TV2 and 3, I've pretty much stopped even trying to seed them unless there is already a healthy group of people on it since I have found it nearly impossible to seed from scratch (even with a bunch of folks on it is hard). I would be in favor of at least looking into what Domer has laid out.

[doobop]

Also would be nice to try TV3 with a 24-man setting. With 18, if 4-6 people leave, the server seems to die. With 24-man, hopefully it stays full enough where it will recover.

[Dog]

Map votes have been tried in the past (during our long history) and they have a tendency to empty the server.
People don't like the map vote choice and leave, whereas if they know what is coming up, they will wait out a map.

Having said that, Supporters and Admins are totally able to throw up a map vote, gauging what everyone wants to play.

So let's look at the map rotation first of all and see what we can do to improve it.

This is the main cycle:
cp_dustbowl - best seeding map - we can take it out of the rotation but would recommend it being used as a seed mao
pl_goldrush
ctf_turbine
pl_barnblitz
cp_fastlane
pl_badwater
cp_gorge
cp_badlands
pl_thundermountain
cp_coldfront
pl_frontier_final
ctf_doublecross
cp_freight_final1

Which maps would you add?
How long for that map (bearing in mind extensions etc)?

Also get as many TV7 regs in here to help make the rotation more appealing.

[M's]

Maybe we could put an advertisement up asking for input.

As for what I've sen. Turbine almost always kills the server.
Been seeing a few of folks wanting to play Hoodo hobo hodo or how ever it pronounced.

[OmgOhnoes]

Maybe we could put an advertisement up asking for input.

As for what I've sen. Turbine almost always kills the server.
Been seeing a few of folks wanting to play Hoodo hobo hodo or how ever it pronounced.

Hoodoo was a great map, i don't remember if it was on TV7 before or just TV1 but i always looked forward to it. Upward is also a good map as well as some of the plr_ .

The problem with plr_ is people don't want several rounds of a 3 part plr_ map. Maybe reduce it to one map set?

Pretty much any 5cp is game, there is a huge selection of great official maps. Once again, the major issue is probably length of the map. Win limit is high on a lot of maps IMO.

Re Turbine: I like the map, other people seem to play it and like it as well. The issue comes with unbalanced teams starting to roll. When you do a round or two of a roll then people start leaving because they still have a chunk of time to play and the win limit/map change is nowhere near.

[Plinko]

Isn't badwater the favored seeding map? I have a strongly negative reaction to starting with dustbowl as it has a tendency to draw players who don't want to play other maps, not to mention the obvious point that we already have a 24/7 server.

[Peahats]

Isn't badwater the favored seeding map? I have a strongly negative reaction to starting with dustbowl as it has a tendency to draw players who don't want to play other maps, not to mention the obvious point that we already have a 24/7 server.

In my experience seeding, Badwater tends to fill up pretty quickly and works really well for melee-only rounds. I'm not a big fan of Thundermountain because of the aforementioned length issue. I'd like to see both Turbine and Doublecross removed, but that probably has more to with me not liking CTF.

EDIT: I also agree with the TV2 and TV3 issue, perhaps we could change one to a specialty sever? Like 24/7 Medieval mode, PLR, or CTF?

[Flash]

Isn't badwater the favored seeding map?

Lately it seems like fastlane and badwater are the spots in the rotation where we seed a lot. Following that the set of badlands, thundermountain and coldfront will get it done.

But in reality, with the new QuickPlay feature, if we can get the server to 13 people Valve will do the rest of the work for us no matter which map it is. Holding a consistent 13 for five minutes seems to be our issue as of late.

[The Domer]

Having said that, Supporters and Admins are totally able to throw up a map vote, gauging what everyone wants to play.

The problem here is that while both gold supporters and administrators can put up a map vote or directly change the map in the case of the admins, neither can really do much unless they are around. Both groups are very small subsets of a much larger population (and one which is seemingly less available with each passing year). Admittedly, what I'm hinting at is another issue for another day; but, for now, suffice it to say relying on gold supporters and admins doesn't seem to be sufficient.

Map votes have been tried in the past (during our long history) and they have a tendency to empty the server.
People don't like the map vote choice and leave, whereas if they know what is coming up, they will wait out a map.

I find this really hard to believe. Obviously, you'd know much better than I would, but it seems logical that if a majority of people are voting to play a map, it's because they want to play it. Doesn't make sense that they'd leave. Regardless, what I'm proposing is that the first choice map is always the next in the rotation anyway (which tends to get picked by default by many people); and, if no majority consensus is reached, it proceeds through normal rotation without any adjustments. It's really only when a majority want to try something a bit different that things would change, and even then only briefly.