TV7 Rotation Map Cycle

[Baron_OHM]

I agree with all of Ohnoes suggestions and I've added to them below. I repeat his assertion that the problem is NOT with bad maps. The problem lies in 1) the fast respawn, as no maps are designed for it, and 2) the map timer/cap limits often cause maps to run far longer than they should during rolls or long stalemate.

I second the suggestion of removing fast respawn. We'll get added to quickplay which will help. My opinion with fast respawn goes like this: I hate dustbowl on fast respawn, I enjoy it on normal respawn. Though it's alright on many larger maps, I don't think it improves a single one. As a somewhat lengthy respawn is a normal component of TF2, I doubt we will lose many players by jettisoning it. It is my opinion that we will have a net gain.

I also second changing map times to a case-by-case basis based upon the individual maps.
The following are my suggestions for cap limits (in addition to map timers):
On multi-stage payload maps (i.e. thundermountain) each side should attack once regardless of how long or short the rounds are.
Single stage payload and attack/defend CP maps should be first to two out of three cap outs.
CTF should be reduced to 2 sets of 3 caps or first to five flag captures in one single round. I would prefer the latter.
5 CP should be reduced to first to three out of five cap outs.
KOTH should be first to four out of seven rounds.

I've also noticed lots of confusion and rage quits over maps switching at timer end. A simple in-game reminder text of, say, 10 min before map end and a message of next map would be great. Many servers do this and I've found it enriches the experience a wee bit.

Although maps are not the problem, I would enjoy some changes. To add to the randomizer idea, we could also use a server config which picked 8 maps from a bag of 10-16. This would be great for mixing things up. From there, the admins could always reduce it back down to 8 based upon map popularity. This config could run once every two weeks or once a month.

In terms of maps being added, I would also suggest looking into popular sixes and highlander competitive play maps and general professional versions of maps. Pro maps are designed specifically to reduce frustration and quicken gameplay. I would also suggest adding a few of the maps Valve released more recently.

Gullywash (2nded)
Steel
Granary
Viaduct Pro
Harvest (Regular Version)
Doomsday
Foundry (2nded)

Thanks,
Baron

[darklin0]

I feel the same way as Ohnoes, YNWA and Baron. Its not the maps its how long they last. I noticed that its always after a match win that there are less people on than when there is a map change. Reducing the map time and/or amount of wins necessary to move on to the next map are key.

Oh and the thing Baron mentioned about an auto announcement saying the map is about to change is great. Its always horrible when your team is winning and you lose, caused by them having more previous wins.

As to map suggestions, Nightfall. One round, no more. The reason why it always emptied the server was because you go through 3 stages and you were back doing the same thing right from the start. It was worse when your team was doing bad.

Definitely lower the amounts of wins for the CTF maps. They end up dragging way to long or they just turn into death matches.

As for other maps, whatever is cool. I don't mind. HYDROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

[Cat Square]

If we require a high majority to enact a vote, and just make hydro a vote option instead of part of the fixed rotation, then ideally the large group that voted it in will stay to play it.

[prang]

I think a shorter map list would help the server but I would love to see a vote implementation as well. It would be nice if we did a maplist shake-up every 3 or 4 months regardless of whether we add a vote though. Everyone has maps they anticipate having a lot of fun on and also maps they dread playing. It is really hard to build one rotation to appeal to everyone so shortening the rotation and switching it up once in a while might help deal with dead times in the map list.

I'd love to see some different or relatively new maps voted in or rotating through one or two spots in the rotation. My opinions on the maps we currently run are-


cp_dustbowl - everyone knows the class comps to compete and win. Almost always fun. (keep)
pl_goldrush - 50/50 This map is a meatgrinder with fast respawns a lot of the time. Some stages are really fun though and it always seems popular. (take it or leave it)
ctf_turbine - Please can we try ctf_turbine_pro? Turbine is a neat map but there is one area to fight over and the only two doors are impossible to get out of. Pro version adds alternate routes that speed up the gameplay and gives people more choices.
pl_barnblitz - I like this map but a red team stack will always kill the server. Point 1 is brutal (take it or leave it)
cp_fastlane - This map is too big and all the transition spaces are small doors. It sucks 12v12 (remove)
pl_badwater - Outstanding map and a strong seed map (keep)
cp_gorge - Fun map with a full server. Low pop it stinks (take it or leave it)
cp_badlands - Its a refined 5 cp map. Its all about the team. (keep or alternate wtih granary)
pl_thundermountain - I like this map but it can drive people away. First stage is fun but brutal for Blue. Last stage is a DM map like hightower. Jumpers win and several classes have little they can do except push the cart. (take it or leave it)
cp_coldfront - Really really long map to play with fast respawns. Can be really fun or a long boring hike back to the stalemate. (take it or leave it)
pl_frontier_final - I always get eaten by the cart. (remove)
ctf_doublecross - Confusing for new players but a fun map. Its a nice change of pace. I'd love to see this alternated with gravelpit every couple of months. (keep)
cp_freight_final1 - Absolutely awful with fast respawns. Its always a stalemate until a team pushes 2-3 heavy medic combos. A la fastlane it is too big. (remove)



I'm surprised we don't have upward on the rotation. That map is awesome but respawn times would need to be adjusted.

[El_Hefe]

24/7 2 fort

[Cat Square]

I wouldn't mind periodic shake-ups

[YoullNeverWalkAlone]

We used to have a server that had a lot of maps in rotation. TV1 was never very successful in my (short) memory because it never felt like a map you like would be coming up any time soon. I would be hesitant to place too many maps in the rotation, and would suggest that we keep the maps we have, possibly moving one or two around, and any map that is added, should cause one to be pulled form the rotation.

I too like the idea of mixing things up, either by changing maps in the rotation, or shifting the rotation.

[NerevarineKing]

pl_frontier_final - I always get eaten by the cart. (remove)

Frontier is actually one of my favorite maps of all time.

[Dog]

So let's give this a go:

MAPCYCLE
So the plan will be to replace one map with another each month. In May, we'll start a thread where people nominate the map to be replaced and the map that will replace it.

The updated mapcycle has no Barnblitz this month. I have added Foundry and Hoodoo.
I have removed Turbine and Doublecross, as these maps for some reason, annoy so many people. I'd like a CTF in there at some point, but we'll give this a go this month and see how it fairs.

cp_dustbowl
cp_foundry
pl_hoodoo_final
cp_fastlane
pl_badwater
cp_gorge
pl_thundermountain
cp_badlands
pl_goldrush
cp_coldfront
pl_frontier_final
cp_freight_final1

Some people suggested adding custom maps such as the 'pro' versions of maps.
The deal is that this server is stocks only and there is no downloading of maps. TV2 will serve that purpose.

Others have consistently suggested Hydro - don't get me wrong, I love Hydro as a map and it brings back many happy memories of 2007. But, and this is a big but, we lose Quickplay when Hydro is on. So I'm afraid Hydro will not be a part of TV7. Having said that, there is no reason not to organize a Hydro night on TV2.

I also saw some people suggest KOTH, but KOTH does funny things to the server, hence TV3.


SERVER SETTINGS
I am thinking like Stevo, that the Quickplay is more beneficial than Fast Respawns.
So we'll remove the plugin and revert to stocks. That will make a lot of people very happy.

We will also look at settings for each map and see if we can make maps like DB and Freight shorter.

[Zork Nemesis]

So let's give this a go:

Is this all effective immediately or are we waiting for the next update/a certain date?

[Dog]

Does tomorrow sound OK?

[BlueInGreen]

I'll play just about any map. Pick any map and you're going to find some like it more, some less. For example, I really like Turbine and really dislike Hydro -- that's just the opposite of others who've replied on to this thread.

I'd like to see more variety, so I don't think any maps should be removed. However, I think the time on some maps should be shortened and the number of won rounds before map switch should be fewer.

[The Domer]

Thanks Dog. I'm looking forward to a bit of variety, even if I'm not too keen on removing turbine and doublecross in order to make that happen. I'm also optimistic that stock respawns might help break some of those notorious stalemates, as people will (hopefully) be less likely to throw their life away knowing they'll just spawn within a couple of seconds.

[Dog]

If you had to add one of those CTF maps, which one would you choose?

[Zork Nemesis]

If you had to add one of those CTF maps, which one would you choose?

Doublecross

That would be my choice, though I believe Turbine is generally more popular among the masses.