Assessing results of the two-engie limit on TV-VI-Dustbowl

[YoullNeverWalkAlone]

Ah, see that's where I just throw out the obligatory "I blame Spanish" and everyone agrees. Or raindrop. He's a convenient target.

[Vine]

I refuse to believe I'm the only one that likes the 2 engi limit.
As much as I love a 25 minute spamfest in this corner, having 3 wrangled red sentries guarding this point isn't fun regardless of which side I'm on.
Just sayin.

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[Plinko]

It looks to me like at least 33 people agree with you, Vine.

[cam]

I refuse to believe I'm the only one that likes the 2 engi limit.
As much as I love a 25 minute spamfest in this corner, having 3 wrangled red sentries guarding this point isn't fun regardless of which side I'm on.
Just sayin.

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But that's not even hard to take down. You don't even need an uber, just a direct hit soldier. He gets on that back area with the snipers and then kills the point engy's dispenser. Wrangled sentries with no dispenser just fall apart. The other two sentries are in positions where you can just take them out and never even get shot at.

Ok, its rage time:
Ever since we put this limit on the dustbowl server, the skill required to win as BLU team has gone WAY down.
"But mummy!", you might say, "That's the point! RED was just too hard to beat!"
No, you silly scrub, you just want BLU to be easier. You don't want to use team work. You don't want to get on the mic and come up with a plan. You just want to throw wave after wave of cannon fodder at the point and eventually win. Zerging is a legitimate strategy now and it takes 0 skill. "JUS KEP ATAKIN GUYS LOL WE GOT IT"

I used to be so proud of TV6. It actually took skill to play on it. If you didn't communicate, you didn't win. People actually came up with plans and made calls. I keep playing there because I keep hoping that times like those will come back, but they don't.
TV6 isn't special anymore. Now it's just another pub.

[Boss Llama]

I agree with most of what mummy is saying. I don't consider it "just another pub" (it's still better than those), but it's definitely not what it was.

The issue I see with this poll thread in general is that the majority of the people saying to ditch the limit are those who play on TV6, while the most vocal proponents of keeping the limit don't play there and aren't affected by it. There are of course exceptions to both those generalities, but it's a distinct enough trend to annoy me. TV6 doesn't want the limit, didn't need the limit, and is worse because of the limit.

[OmgOhnoes]

The issue I see with this poll thread in general is that the majority of the people saying to ditch the limit are those who play on TV6, while the most vocal proponents of keeping the limit don't play there and aren't affected by it. There are of course exceptions to both those generalities, but it's a distinct enough trend to annoy me. TV6 doesn't want the limit, didn't need the limit, and is worse because of the limit.

This; i find i play TV6 less now that the limit is in place. Basically it's a peeve off to play on a team that has a bad/new or mediocre engineer and even a fantastic engineer simply can't make up for it. They can't even learn how to properly help their fellow engineers if they haven't seen a good engineer pair. I want people to learn to play classes, that's the beauty of The Ville, but they aren't learning anything nor are they being a credit to team on a competitive map like Dustbowl when better players can't make up for their lack of experience.

On top of it i played several rounds the other day where one engineer insisted on going mini-sentry. I'm sorry, but basically we lost 1/12th of our team right there and couldn't put up an effective defense with the one remaining engineer - it was just not fun.

[Cat Square]

Idonno Mummy, I don't think TV6 is just another pub -- I can join morning or night or any time of day and there are almost always enough good players on both teams to where the team that chooses the correct combination of classes and playstyle will win. Other servers are less consistently good IMO. I don't see too many impossible-to-overcome sit
uations at TV6

[Flaming Cheese Wheel]

Having popped into TV6 from time to time, I voted for removing the limit of two (so it goes back to three?). I've watched Blue teams who don't need Red to be handicapped with only two Engys in order to fail completely horribly anyway; I don't think the Engy limit matters as much in the end versus the relative skill levels of each team.

[Plinko]

The issue I see with this poll thread in general is that the majority of the people saying to ditch the limit are those who play on TV6, while the most vocal proponents of keeping the limit don't play there and aren't affected by it. There are of course exceptions to both those generalities, but it's a distinct enough trend to annoy me. TV6 doesn't want the limit, didn't need the limit, and is worse because of the limit.

There are more votes than replies, much less after one counts the repeat posters (4 or 5 people have more than half the posts). We do not particularly know who is voting for what, and even more importantly, the perception of who is and isn't a regular is kind of self-reinforcing on a topic like this. People who previously felt the 3-engie limit hurt the enjoyability of a 24/7 dustbowl server would be highly likely to move elsewhere, it seems to have kept plenty of Ville regulars away from the server.

I play on TV6 a lot more now that the limit is in place, it's a far, far better experience than it was before.
Giz made an excellent reference earlier in the thread to TV8 - that server is also far more enjoyable since the 2-engie limit was put into place.

The win ratio remains the same 50% it was before the change.
Server traffic appears to be up a bit since the change as well, it's hard to argue that there's been any meaningful deterioration in either the quality of play or traffic with the limit changed.

[BlueInGreen]

Both engies setting up on the second point right at the start, sitting unmoving while each other's stuff is sapped, failing to put up even a single teleport, etc.

We need a mod to allow vote switching an incompetent engineer to another class -- or even better, switching them to the other team. (joking)

I agree that it's frustrating watching beginners playing support classes (medic and engineer) who when given advice ("how about placing your gun over there instead of right next to mine?" or "how about using that Uber you've built a dozen times?") pay no attention and never seem to learn.

[Cat Square]

What blueingreen suggested would make a fantastic perk for "gold" donators -- the ability to call a vote that would force a bad engie to play a different class.

[J. Paul McCartney]

I really don't think the engie limit has really made a difference. Whenever I play it feels like the biggest problem isn't the sentries, an uber demo/heavy could take it out easily, hell a competent spy could just sap and stab too. What really stops BLU from capping is the Kritz demomen and the airblast from the pyros. Snipers are a problem sometimes (specifically most of the gates you go through) but mostly are just a nuisance. Honestly I don't see that the limit has made a difference

[Cat Square]

my barbie is still prettier

[Crusty Juggler]

I agree with Paul McCartney. It's mainly the airblast that makes Dustbowl Stage 3 a problem.

And yeah, the two Engie limit has made novice Engies a big, big problem on TV6. Regulars can't just grab a wrench and help build, then switch back to their normal class anymore. One thing about TV6 is, we push hard. After the first cap, it's customary to put on the big-time coordinated rush on last cap right away. So it's damn important for Engies to help each other.

Every single round seems to have one Engie who won't help his fellow Engie. Every single round seems to have an Engie who builds all his stuff at spawn and tries to walk it to the front. And no one can switch to help, as the slot is taken.

It's gotten so bad that people constantly ask me to start votekicks on novice Engies.

[Gizanked]

Votekicking someone that is a novice is not an acceptable supporter action. Something to remember about the ville is even though there is a regular player base with a good amount of skill... we don't turn people away, we don't mock people for being "f2p" we respect everyone no matter wha their skill level. If someone is really so bad that people would want tem kicked then take it as a challenge to overcome te odds. Now if they are intentionally griefing then that is another problem... which has ben discussed many times.