What Defines a "Pro" Player?

[Fano]

It's the people who take it too far. There's getting better to further your enjoyment, then some people who insist on becoming the best and going out of their way to do so. I wish I could put it into better words, but there are people who get good at something simply because they can rather than want to.

I never said getting better is a bad thing, I strive for greatness myself and have been rotating classes frequently with building various strange weapons as an excuse to do so (current mind set is Black Box/Reserve Shooter/Equalizer solly). But i've heard stories of those who practice and practice and practice simply to do it; they can rock an entire match outscoring the second best player 3 to 1, and get nothing out of it.

I don't quite get it, I mean, if I'm ever just not enjoying the game I wouldn't keep on playing just to get better, I'd stop and take a break.

It sounds to me like you're not getting the whole picture, for example, I am utterly terrible at 6v6 (last match I played I went 3:21 as soldier, really bad), I practice a lot and I lose a lot but I still enjoy myself while doing so, on the other hand I can hop on TV7 right now and go 70:10 with little effort, it's a release for me, after doing so badly it feels good to do well.

In the context that I'm interested in however, I'm still bad, so I will keep practicing in order to do better and get more enjoyment out of it, there's really a huge skill gap between most tf2 players and those who put even the slightest amount of effort, and for some reason those who try to go the extra mile are looked down upon by the rest of the community and labeled as "tryhards" (not just here, but everywhere else as well). Shouldn't it be the other way around?

I understand what you are saying , and I probably could elevate my game by practicing, but I absolutely refuse to do so. I don't play competitively and am not looking to make a living off of TF2 (which is what I consider a "Pro"). I'm doing this to have fun and I would much rather spend the limited time I have playing rather than practicing. I would however never "look down" on someone who does, and have not ever seen anyone here label someone as a "tryhard". The only time I think you would see that is if someone was insistent that practicing was a requirement.

The assumption that you're making is that you wouldn't be having fun by more consciously attempting to up your game.

moreso, in what way are you using the term "practice"? Practicing, at least in the 6v6 sense, means scrimming, which means just playing the game against other teams, it's essentially the same as playing normally, only in a more serious environment. It's actually the more fun part of the whole thing, it's where you continuously develop your teamwork and strategies.

[YoullNeverWalkAlone]

Practice? We're talkn' 'bout practice? Are you serious man?

Every time I play its practice/scrimmage. Unless we are talking about jumping on an empty server or something to work on rocket jumps or some such (something I need to do with you Fano, esp. now that I have a mouse!), most of us are on improving our play. practice can be fun and lighthearted (check out Zork with some of his weapon loadouts when he is working on elements of his game) or more "serious" as you work with a team or individual to develop aspects of the game.

I think allot of this is very similar to sports. You can be a pro in the true sense of the word and be one of the guys getting ready for this weekends championship football games, or on a rec team. You could just be playing with the guys or in a passing league. Some people take the game real serious and put a ton of time into it. Others could care less. Some of the pro guys work real hard at their craft and still find ways to make it fun, others view it as a business. In the end, it is still just a game they are playing.

[somedude]

The assumption that you're making is that you wouldn't be having fun by more consciously attempting to up your game.

moreso, in what way are you using the term "practice"? Practicing, at least in the 6v6 sense, means scrimming, which means just playing the game against other teams, it's essentially the same as playing normally, only in a more serious environment. It's actually the more fun part of the whole thing, it's where you continuously develop your teamwork and strategies.

Well when I think of "practice" I tend to think of setting up a server with bots that allow you to repeat and perfect certain actions which sounds extremely tedious and boring to me (<- note emphasis on me). Additionally since I have no interest in competitive play there are not many opportunities to 6v6, add in that I primarily play pyro which is nonexistent in comp play and that pretty much throws that all out. Regardless of all of that though, any minute I'm doing anything TF2 wise that does not involve TV8, well that's usually just not fun for me (again, me).

[Fano]

The assumption that you're making is that you wouldn't be having fun by more consciously attempting to up your game.

moreso, in what way are you using the term "practice"? Practicing, at least in the 6v6 sense, means scrimming, which means just playing the game against other teams, it's essentially the same as playing normally, only in a more serious environment. It's actually the more fun part of the whole thing, it's where you continuously develop your teamwork and strategies.

Well when I think of "practice" I tend to think of setting up a server with bots that allow you to repeat and perfect certain actions which sounds extremely tedious and boring to me (<- note emphasis on me). Additionally since I have no interest in competitive play there are not many opportunities to 6v6, add in that I primarily play pyro which is nonexistent in comp play and that pretty much throws that all out. Regardless of all of that though, any minute I'm doing anything TF2 wise that does not involve TV8, well that's usually just not fun for me (again, me).

The only time that's really needed is to perfect something like rocket jumping, which, granted, can be quite boring as opposed to actually playing the game.

And it's fine that you (or anyone) has no interest in playing competitively, my main point was that no one should be badmouthing competitive play if they've never even tried it.


@YMWA: You know I'm down for that whenever, just shoot me a message on steam, I'm free all day today and have nothing to do if you want to give it a shot, anyone else is welcome to come as well, I've got 19 slots on my server now.

[Earthworm James]

One reason I got so hooked on competitive counter-strike was the intensity of matches. I got pumped up for league matches, and I practiced/scrimmed with my teams all week to prepare. The games were always most fun if both teams practiced/prepared well for the match, and that is why LAN tournaments were the best. Every team that showed up had put hours in together to give the tourny their best shot.

The point I want to make is that competitive gaming is not about being better than your opponent, it is about how good you are together with your team. Hinging your efforts on being better than another has been less effective for me than applying that same energy to comradery, teamwork & personal skill. If you are better than the other team, the results will show it. Also, it is great playing with a solid group of friends/teammates, but the gaming is much more fun if the teams are at par with eachother. In this sense, we are ALL playing together, even if we are on opposite teams. The better the other team, the more fun for me. It is easy to trick a noob, but it is hard to out-smart a player on par with yourself.

[Larry]

I think of ever match as practice, or anything even related to Tf2 as practice. I was looking at scout videos on youtube, and while i was watching this guy play, i realized that i was focusing too much on the hope that the scatter of my bullets would just kill them, and i was rushing my shots. So know, i've started to slow my shots and aim better, i actually close the type 3 cross hair and lowered it all the way to 1 so it looked like a dot, so i could practice on aiming.

[Fano]

One reason I got so hooked on competitive counter-strike was the intensity of matches. I got pumped up for league matches, and I practiced/scrimmed with my teams all week to prepare. The games were always most fun if both teams practiced/prepared well for the match, and that is why LAN tournaments were the best. Every team that showed up had put hours in together to give the tourny their best shot.

The point I want to make is that competitive gaming is not about being better than your opponent, it is about how good you are together with your team. Hinging your efforts on being better than another has been less effective for me than applying that same energy to comradery, teamwork & personal skill. If you are better than the other team, the results will show it. Also, it is great playing with a solid group of friends/teammates, but the gaming is much more fun if the teams are at par with eachother. In this sense, we are ALL playing together, even if we are on opposite teams. The better the other team, the more fun for me. It is easy to trick a noob, but it is hard to out-smart a player on par with yourself.

Very well said and I completely agree, nothing is more fun than a game where teams are evenly matched.

[Guardian]

If anyone wants to actually SEE what people are talking about when they mention coordination and teamwork look no further. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHFIFVV2 ... ature=plcp

You should notice the team is constantly communicating what they're doing and the where the team is at. It may be a bit hard to keep up with since you need to absorb a lot of info on the spot.

[Fano]

If anyone wants to actually SEE what people are talking about when they mention coordination and teamwork look no further. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHFIFVV2 ... ature=plcp

You should notice the team is constantly communicating what they're doing and the where the team is at. It may be a bit hard to keep up with since you need to absorb a lot of info on the spot.

good video, there are also a ton of mumble videos in this exactly style on the MGE youtube channel, these videos used to be private, but they are now available for everybody since the site went down late last year: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL ... ature=plcp

[Kagsacar]

Well it has been awhile since this thread had any post so i decided to give an update on my quest to not be a dead weight on the rest of my team. I have mained a sniper and am using s strange Sydney Sleeper, (Which i plan to name Tactus Languor, "Touch of Sickness" in Latin) and am normally getting a 1.5 k/d ratio, 2-3 if you count assist kills. i am trying to use my mic more but it is a cheap mic and does not work very well. The point is i am finally not feeling like a dead weight, i am not longer class hoping, the only time i ever jump class, is when i join the map, and their is already 2-3 sniper in which case i play heavy until a spot opens. I am rage-quitting less because i am not sucking as hard, which is great. I am breaking all thous old terrible habits that plagued my early days on The Ville. Just though my fellow Villuns should know. On a different note i have also kinda had the urge to face Plinko in a game but i haven't seen him on, or if i did i did not realize it. I hear he is a good sniper and would like to test myself against him, as weird as that sounds... Hooray for gaining self confidence!

[Plinko]

I'm happy if people think I'm a good sniper but there are at least three or four regular folks on TV8 that are way better than me at sniping!

[Katotsu]

Want to test sniping? Find Agro. he's almost never on nowdays though.

[One_Medic_Army]

Over on 8 there's a pretty good crop of snipers to test yourself against.

[Larry]

Well it has been awhile since this thread had any post so i decided to give an update on my quest to not be a dead weight on the rest of my team. I have mained a sniper and am using s strange Sydney Sleeper, (Which i plan to name Tactus Languor, "Touch of Sickness" in Latin) and am normally getting a 1.5 k/d ratio, 2-3 if you count assist kills. i am trying to use my mic more but it is a cheap mic and does not work very well. The point is i am finally not feeling like a dead weight, i am not longer class hoping, the only time i ever jump class, is when i join the map, and their is already 2-3 sniper in which case i play heavy until a spot opens. I am rage-quitting less because i am not sucking as hard, which is great. I am breaking all thous old terrible habits that plagued my early days on The Ville. Just though my fellow Villuns should know. On a different note i have also kinda had the urge to face Plinko in a game but i haven't seen him on, or if i did i did not realize it. I hear he is a good sniper and would like to test myself against him, as weird as that sounds... Hooray for gaining self confidence!

i still rage-quit every now and then, but mostly it's cause of the lack of teamwork.

[IMP!-6]

Over on 8 there's a pretty good crop of snipers to test yourself against.

I didn't realize how good the snipers were on TV8 until I started sniping on some other servers. Only playing on 8 was making me think anyone could pick up a rifle and snipe these days. I'm glad that still is not the case.