Only YOU can prevent teamstacking!

[Dog]

It is much more effective if each of us as individuals holds ourselves accountable to team stacking. Notice the imbalance? Switch.

THIS.
We are Villuns so fair play is part of our ethos.
Team stacking cannot be controlled via automatic means and the only way to do it is through Villuns voluntarily swapping teams to keep things even.

[Fox_Blaze]

and the topic is called "only YOU can prevent teamstacking!" This implies that it should behoove the player him/herself to evaluate the situation and try and balance it out without using things like vote scramble and such similar commands.

[Bakuryu]

While people say they will switch, in practice, this does not happen as often as you would hope, and honestly, it's hard to change to a team that fails epically, especially if you can't change because of the numbers. If it's ten on ten and nobody leaves, the awful herp a derp team keeps on herpin and derpin and there's nothing to be done about it (except for if an admin happens to be on, playing TF2, and willing to scramble, which is lovely when it happens). I am often extremely frustrated by broken team compositions (there is NEVER a justification for 3 snipers or spies unless it's a skeet shooting fun map), which I believe are the core of why teams fail epically, but I understand class limits won't change, so I guess I'll derp with the rest of them. At it's core, it isn't stacking that's an issue, it's one team happening to be better with random players and refusing to budge or change it up.

What TF2 needs is a player-swapping system, like if you and another player agreed, you could change teams in game with each other. That would solve all this.

[One_Medic_Army]

Personally I tend to resort to playing one of my less effective classes if the opportunity to switch isn't available (or honestly, if I had enough of being on the loosing side from the previous map). Unfortunately having one person switch isn't generally enough when one team has the lion's share of experienced or regular players.

I will say that there are certain servers, and certain regulars who are not forum goers and whom I would not term "villuns" who make a habit of stacking teams. You can try and buck the stack by joining opposite, but personally there's only so much being rolled I can take before I quit the specific server and go play on a different one.

[Plinko]

I believe that system is going spectator after someone on the other team agrees to swap with you.

[somedude]

I do and have seen a need for this.

Just throwing this out there, but what if you set it up as an option for gold members just like votekick is? Seems to me like most gold members are regulars, and would be able to discern when there is truly a need to instigate a scramble, just as with a votekick.

[black_and_blue]

Unfortunately having one person switch isn't generally enough when one team has the lion's share of experienced or regular players.

Sometimes true sometimes not, I've seen it both ways.

When the swap is very well organised (eg. 1st place on BLU switches with last place on RED), I've actually never seen it fail. But then I've only been able to see that kind of swap a few times.

Just throwing this out there, but what if you set it up as an option for gold members just like votekick is? Seems to me like most gold members are regulars, and would be able to discern when there is truly a need to instigate a scramble, just as with a votekick.

Only if it doesn't reset the map timer. As has been brought up before in this thread, scrambles often don't fix the problem, and would be very counterproductive if it results in another 20 minutes being added to the timer. I don't have any objection to automated scrambles that don't fix the problem provided that it doesn't end up extending the map longer than it will already run.

In some very extreme cases where the stack is really bad, I have sometimes put up a vote to skip to the next map to get out of the stack, but only in the absolute worst of the worst cases.

----

I really think that the reason that scrambles so frequently fail is because people try to build intelligence into scramble algorithms by taking first place overall and putting on team BLU, then putting second place overall in team RED, and so on, where there are often reasons other than skill having a high individual score. I think a truly random scramble would have a higher success rate than one based on an algorithm.

[Fano]

what I'd like to see, rather than a vote scramble feature, is for the map to change after a team ha reached a certain number of wins, badlands ended 5-0 in the first 5 minutes? next map.

Rather than a scramble, just send the players to the next map after either a certain number of wins has been reached by either team, or the map timer has ended. This keeps the rotation moving faster if there are rolls which guarantees teams are scrambled via the map change, and it doesn't infuriate anyone.

[Bronze Fox]

TV3 is the only place any kind of automatic scrambling would be appropriate, IMHO.

This. I don't mean this in a bragging way but often times it's me, or any skilled player, that causes the stack.
From my past experience, switching to the other team only causes that team to start rolling the other.

[black_and_blue]

From my past experience, switching to the other team only causes that team to start rolling the other.

Even this is sometimes a good thing; much better to have both teams roll the other than have one team do all the rolling.

what I'd like to see, rather than a vote scramble feature, is for the map to change after a team ha reached a certain number of wins, badlands ended 5-0 in the first 5 minutes? next map.

In favour of this, but I'd probably have a lower threshold of 3 wins or so.

[Snidely Whiplash]

I think a scrambling system would add a sense of formality to the game that I do not prefer.. I'm thinking back to the one time at The Ville that I was switched to another team for balance by a third party.. as silly as it is I was insulted because I am among the first to switch when people complain of stacking issues. Also, sometimes I like to play with the people on my friends list(or against them); if I have to be on a specific team it somewhat ruins this dynamic of personal rivalries/cooperation. This is a respectful gaming community and I like the grown up aspect of sorting things out without a raffle or forcing somebody's hand.. just a few random thoughts on the subject.

[YoullNeverWalkAlone]

I think a scrambling system would add a sense of formality to the game that I do not prefer.. I'm thinking back to the one time at The Ville that I was switched to another team for balance by a third party.. as silly as it is I was insulted because I am among the first to switch when people complain of stacking issues. Also, sometimes I like to play with the people on my friends list(or against them); if I have to be on a specific team it somewhat ruins this dynamic of personal rivalries/cooperation. This is a respectful gaming community and I like the grown up aspect of sorting things out without a raffle or forcing somebody's hand.. just a few random thoughts on the subject.

I agree with this as well. There have been a few times where I have been auto switched off a team where I was really enjoying playing with some of the people on my friends list and was really bummed about it.

However I really like the idea of the map rotating if a roll is on. That has evened things out several times I've played. I can't think of many worse evenings I've had playing TF2 than the times when I was getting rolled and the map just wouldn't seem to end. Some maps can seem to go on forever when you know your team is going to get killed, and nothing seems to drive people away from the server more than a map and team combination where things aren't competitive.

I'm not a good enough player to make a difference if I switch teams, so I often just have to sit there hoping that things will improve, switch classes, or try to ignore the bickering that inevitably comes with one team getting squashed.

[Bronze Fox]

From my past experience, switching to the other team only causes that team to start rolling the other.

Even this is sometimes a good thing; much better to have both teams roll the other than have one team do all the rolling.

Here's the problem with TV3: Three round wins changes the map, and I won't consider either team is rolling the other until two straight wins.
And at that point there's not much point in trying to fix the stack as one more loss equals a "teamscramble."

Many times have I switched over from the 2 wins team to the 0 wins team and then gotten that team 2 wins. (At 2-2 the map changes as well)
The amount of round wins would have to be increased before I would bother trying to fix the teams.

Of course, three round wins changing the map also is not necessarily a bad thing either. It is tricky spot from my view point I guess.


The simplest answer is usually the best and in this case, it is turning the server into 24/7 arena.

[Fano]

it's really not even about preventing teamstacking, it's more about rotating the map more often so that there's more variety, teams are always different each map change, and adding an additional condition besides the timer to the map change settings would go a long way to prevent teamstacking from happening while adding more variety to the map rotation.

Another server I play on goes a totally different way, there is no map timer and each map is best 2 out of 3, so the most that will get played on each map before changing is 3 rounds, usually two, the maps change often enough to keep me playing for a longer time, since every match/team is different every time. This server however is mostly 5cp maps and very little payload (badwater and upward mostly) and no A/D maps besides gravelpit, so I wouldn't recommend these settings on TheVille as the potential stalemating that can happen is much higher thanks to payload maps and the likes of dustbowl, coupled with faster respawns.

[Bakuryu]

Clearly the solution is a 24/7 Junction server. All jokes aside, I will be attempting to jump teams to help more often than I already do (though I tend to end up on the derp team a lot). I haven't been on as much as I used to be, but I'll try