Hatless Update

[bz]

Vita-Saw: Wasn't entirely necessary, but a neat perk. Allows a medic to select targets for his patient. But the 10 health penalty is too little for that kind of perk in my opinion

I was apprehensive about that at first as well, but I started paying attention more attention to my deaths as a medic, and more often than not, the majority of my deaths came from crits, headshots, and being caught out of position where 10hp would not have made a difference. As much as a love the ubersaw, it is too tempting (at least for me) to play overly-offensive with it (that being said, when things go perfectly and you can chain 2 or 3 ubers to push your team, it doesn't get any better as a medic). The new buff is entirely welcome, though implementing it to it's full extent in the average pub game will be difficult.

Ubersaw = High-Risk, High Reward. Unstoppable when everything goes right.
Vitasaw = High-Percentage Play, long-term more ubers = more victories. Promotes better play as a medic, at the price of glory.


Also, I agree that the loch n' load did not need a buff, it was already next to impossible to defend against a determined demo carrying one, even without an uber, or stickies! Thumbs down in my book.

Edit: Not referring to medic-chain ubers.

[Clay Pigeon]

The Sydney Sleep promotes bad play even more now.

You just mad I'm crocostylin on you.

[TheCarpe]

Sydney Sleeper needs it puncture ability back.

[Supreveio]

My thoughts:
- -25% damage for crits on the Eyelander/Headtaker, Claidheadh Mor, and Ullapool Caber I think reduces the effectiveness of the Targe.
- -25% damage for crits on the Gunslinger ruins the combo system they had going. With a little actual tweaking, the Gunslinger Combo could've actually worked.
- -25% damage for crits on the Southern Hospitality. I suppose this is fair.
- -25% damage for crits on the Powerjack. This is no longer a medieval-fit weapon, nor am I ever using it for melee-only rounds ever again (what with the 20% melee vulnerability). At least they fixed melee counting as bullets a few updates ago, so Powerjack-wielding Gas Jockey Pyros aren't taking effectively mini-crits from melee weapons.
- Dalokohs Bar with no cooldown. Still sucks. Either let us throw it to teammates to heal them, or increase the healing done by the bar.
- Fists of Steel penalties. Fine by me. 60% damage reduction was a little excessive given that people could just switch weapons to exploit the fact that you had to melee them to do any decent damage.
- Loch-N-Load buff. Allows Demomen to one-shot 125-HP classes, I believe. A decent buff considering it used to be a 2-hit kill. A trait shared with the normal grenade launcher.
- Equalizer nerf. Fine by me, I guess? I never use it anyway. At least this stops Soldiers with it from calling for Medic with it out.
- Battalion's Backup nerf. I suppose this is fair. Banner buffs are supposed to be a team-rallying event, not something you can do every minute by just standing there and taking damage.
- Concheror buff. No comment, as I don't have the weapon.
- Mad Milk nerf. Is 15% really that big of a difference?
- Sun-on-a-Stick buff. Now it really is an Axtinguisher-for-Scout.
- Fan O'War buff. Because 10 seconds totally wasn't enough time to kill someone who takes all mini-crit damage.
- Flare Gun buff. Excellent. Would make me want to use the Flare Gun again if there weren't like fifty billion counters to afterburn.
- Backburner buff. Might actually use it now.
- Sydney Sleeper buff. Okay, I guess.

[Bakuryu]

I'd still take a good sniper using the reg rifle killing heavier classes in one hit over a sleeper sniper "supporting their team." Even with the recharge rate increase, great regular sniper > great sleeper sniper - except possibly on warpath, but then again if you have a good spy, the sleeper snipers are a moot point.

I feel like the concherer might actually be viable now, especially in concert with the black box. The opportunity to get 50-60hp a rocket is mighty tempting. The equalizer thing was all about escaping. As long as they don't take away the run speed, I don't care if they make it spray glitter and copies of Chumbawumba albums - as long as I can run away quickly while leaving a trail of em.

[Clay Pigeon]

I'd still take a good sniper using the reg rifle killing heavier classes in one hit over a sleeper sniper "supporting their team." Even with the recharge rate increase, great regular sniper > great sleeper sniper - except possibly on warpath, but then again if you have a good spy, the sleeper snipers are a moot point.

I feel like the concherer might actually be viable now, especially in concert with the black box. The opportunity to get 50-60hp a rocket is mighty tempting. The equalizer thing was all about escaping. As long as they don't take away the run speed, I don't care if they make it spray glitter and copies of Chumbawumba albums - as long as I can run away quickly while leaving a trail of em.

All while thumping your tub?

[Bronze Fox]

All the complaints about the melee weapons seem to be, paraphrasing, "Now it's on par with the stock melee weapons!!"

That's the point. Weapons weren't meant to be straight upgrades.
They were meant to have you think about your play-style and what best suits you.

As many people won't melee a pyro to begin with, it's added melee vunerability doesn't do much good to counter that.

I melee Pyros all the time as Scout. If you have the milk it's not really that bad.

[TheCarpe]

All the complaints about the melee weapons seem to be, paraphrasing, "Now it's on par with the stock melee weapons!!"

That's the point. Weapons weren't meant to be straight upgrades.
They were meant to have you think about your play-style and what best suits you.

I think what they're referring to is the fact that since damage is on par, the alternate abilities DO make it a straight upgrade. The Powerjack isn't so much of an example (with it's melee damage vulnerability), but consider the Amputator. Same damage, swing speed, and crit chance as the Bonesaw, with a healing taunt and set bonus thrown on top. There is zero reason, aside from cosmetics or simple preference, to use the Bonesaw if you have an Amputator.

[Bronze Fox]

All the complaints about the melee weapons seem to be, paraphrasing, "Now it's on par with the stock melee weapons!!"

That's the point. Weapons weren't meant to be straight upgrades.
They were meant to have you think about your play-style and what best suits you.

I think what they're referring to is the fact that since damage is on par, the alternate abilities DO make it a straight upgrade. The Powerjack isn't so much of an example (with it's melee damage vulnerability), but consider the Amputator. Same damage, swing speed, and crit chance as the Bonesaw, with a healing taunt and set bonus thrown on top. There is zero reason, aside from cosmetics or simple preference, to use the Bonesaw if you have an Amputator.

Damage on par? What are you talking about? A lot of the melee weapons do 25% less damage now.
As for the Powerjack, it has a down-side; more melee damage, and as you guys say, with all the things that put out afterburn,
meleeing a Pyro with the Powerjack might not seem as crazy anymore. (Especially if they're using the Degresser, less afterburn)

Also the Amputater is only weapon in the game that does not have a down side.
Every other weapon in the game has a down-side even if it's something really minimal.

It seems I just don't understand what there is to complain about.

[Fano]

Sydney Sleeper needs it puncture ability back.

what? buff it even more? are you crazy?

===
as for the vita-saw: I haven't taken it off since I first got it, it's pretty much the best melee for the medic now, hell, even pre-buff it was pretty great.

[Supreveio]

Also the Amputater is only weapon in the game that does not have a down side.
Every other weapon in the game has a down-side even if it's something really minimal.

I thought the Amputator's downside was that you had to taunt to use its special ability. Do it in the wrong place, and you're a sitting duck for... Uh, everybody.

[Jesus_Faction]

The point is that there is no reason to use the bonesaw once you have the amputator

[Bronze Fox]

I don't know why Valve didn't put the -25% damage penalty on the Amputater.

[Katotsu]

*Long post talking about every weapon*

Fully agree. Every statement is what I think of this update.

I don't know why Valve didn't put the -25% damage penalty on the Amputater.

Its because they only changed weapons that had -No crits

[Bronze Fox]

I don't know why Valve didn't put the -25% damage penalty on the Amputater.

Its because they only changed weapons that had -No crits

That shouldn't stop them from adding it to the Amputater.
They did an extra nerf for the Powerjack, why not the Amputater too?