Team Stacking Rant

[frostdillicus]

I just got done with 2 hours of the most frustrating TF2 I have ever played.

The teams were constantly stacked and there was absolutely NOTHING that could be done about it. Map switch, teams got stacked again. It was getting to the point where one teams points were 2-3x that of the other. People on the losing team were quitting in disgust in droves, eventually myself included.

Now before all of you chime in with, ZOMG class balance, or work better together, or the usual stuff that gets posted, we had good balance of classes. We were playing well as a team. When the skill difference on the teams is so huge, and stacked that way on purpose, there is no way it could have been overcome.

Usually, teams self regulate on our servers and both teams end up having fun. I can tell you pretty clearly, nobody on the team that got stomped 2 maps in a row was having any sort of fun.

[Plinko]

Well, how do you know it's on purpose and not just that, randomly, one team happened to get a couple of players that were better than the other or worked together better? After all, you don't know what the other team is doing that might be better.

If certain players were team stacking and you have good reason to believe they were doing it deliberately, file a complaint ticket with the specifics so the admin group can review it (ie were people with the same tags hopping on a team, did the same players all rush one side on the new map).
Otherwise, other than asking politely if the other team will even it up or as a last-ditch effort only, you could initiate a map vote in the hopes that the teams even out a bit on the new map (provided you're a gold supporter) or ask an admin to change it up, you don't have a lot of options.

No one wants to see server exodus, but rolls can and do happen even with relatively evenly matched teams.

[Flobee]

I was there. It was pretty lame.

[ShadyJane]

The dominating team never wants to give up on their dominating. I’ve been there. I can relate. However, if the other team cannot even retain players for more than a minute or two people then have got to switch sides.

I’ve seen this happen in Warpath and the end result is an empty server.

It’s actually kind of funny because if auto-balance kicks in, the players being transferred usually end up leaving too because, surprise, not being able to put up a fight is frustrating.

Also, [generic assumption that your team was composed of only scouts, engineers, snipers, and spies].

[--HaDeS--]

It happens to everyone, while it can be frustrating, I usually just play through the game and wait until the server switches maps. If the teams get stacked AGAIN, then I usually just go play another map for a half an hour or so. Usually when I get back everything is going better and a good fair game is being played.

Even though the game is meant to be played with equal teams, some people insist on doing otherwise. It's just how some people are and usually if you just wait it out on another server everything will go back to normal.

[Dirty Dan]

If it's a complete disaster and people are leaving, or there's some sort of clear collusion involved in team stacking talk to an admin.

Otherwise,

Usually, teams self regulate on our servers and both teams end up having fun

You can only do so much, sometimes teams aren't going to be great, but for the most part we have pretty reasonable players that try to make things balanced.

[Powdermilkman]

Way back in the dim times when i was an admin i remember using a function to mix up the teams, of course this was the same as kicking a hornets nest but sometimes as admin you gotta do the unpopular thing once in awhile. If it was so bad is it wrong for the admin to just change the map to the next one in the rotation. I know changing the maps is frowned upon but in certain situations, like this one, i could see where changing the map to the next one might mix up the teams a bit.

PMM

[Thom Yorke Obliterator]

If certain players were team stacking and you have good reason to believe they were doing it deliberately, file a complaint ticket with the specifics so the admin group can review it (ie were people with the same tags hopping on a team, did the same players all rush one side on the new map).

Also watch for the dreaded Spec stacking, where people sit in Spec waiting for a spot on the stacked team. It sucks when you have a pile of people sitting in Spec for the first ten minutes of a map, or jump into Spec when they get auto-balanced to the losing side. Doing this deliberately and repeatedly isn't just bad sportsmanship, it's against the Ville rules.

[l3eeron]

I was there too, on TV7. I switched teams a couple times, and a couple times I was on the loosing team. Eventually I switched maps early a couple times to try to mix things up... but we kept getting uneven teams. It was frustrating. Seemed like no matter what we did, one team was getting bowled over.

Not much else we could have done...

[Shifty]

I was there. It was pretty lame.

You were there but didnt do a shuffle?

[frostdillicus]

Unfortuantely, last night wasn't an isolated incident. It's been happening pretty often on TV1 also. One game that sticks out in my mind was a game of Hightower where blue capped on red 5 times before red finally held them. I was originally on blue in that case, and switched to red after the first rout. We finally got red working together enough to stop them, but not until they rolled over us 4 more times.

After the map switched and the server lost 1/3 of its population due to the absolute massacre that was the previous map, I tried to tell people that team balance like that hurts the server, but for the most part people from the winning team largely laughed at or ignored me. A few of them even said it was fun, to which most of the people on red replied, "Not for us."

The really sad part is now there are a lot of people who were on the losing team that now hate Hightower. They hate it because they think it is an unfair map, when in actuality it was the teams that were unfair. A fun new map is now forever tainted in the minds of 10 or so people.

As for the suggestion of using an admin shuffle, as far as I know, using it resets the map time to the original value. I can tell you with some certainty that NOBODY on the team that was getting routed wanted to play any more Gravel Pit at that point. Especially not after the winning team started dropping L3 sentries around our spawns at C.

[Hamese]

Frost, did you notice a group of people on the stacked team that were kind of the focal point? I played Dustbowl on TV1 yesterday against a team that was rolling us. It was only 6v6, but there was two from a clan that were the difference on that team. Just curious because I didn't do anything with a few minutes left in the rotation and eventually one of them left.

[frostdillicus]

There was a focal point, a heavy/medic pair, that had a few people following them around. I can't pinpoint who they were though as they constantly kept changing their names. You knew who they were though, because eventually they would change their names to be the reverse of each other. They didn't have any clan tag ever though so.

[spm97]

Sometimes, teams end up un-balanced. It happens sometimes on warpath, and I'll do a couple of things:

1st - If anyone is specing, and the loosing team is down by one, I'll kick the spectator after a few minutes. There is normally a line of people waiting to join the server, and 1 player means a lot on warpath.
2nd - if that didn't help, I'll shake the teams up a little manually, letting the people I'm moving know I'm going to swap them. Then I move one to spec, switch the other, etc. Again, 1 player can change a team from steamroll to stalemate.
3rd - if that didn't help, and the map is close to ending because of the 5 round limit, i just let the round end, and tell the teams it will switch next round, and just finish out the round as-is.
4th - If it's only in the first or second round, and there is an obvious issue with the teams that moving 1-2 people isn't going to fix, then (and only then) will I shuffle.

That's my 2 cents on things.

Spam

[l33tOMGlolz!11!shift]

If I get balanced to a team that's being rolled it's usually (but of course not always) because of poor class selection.

3 snipers, 2 spies, 2 scouts, no medic. The other team has 3 soldiers, 3 demos, and a heavy/medic pair.

I'll often pick a missing class (such as medic) and announce to the team they are going to get rolled if we don't get a little more beef. I think lots of players don't pay attention to team makeup and don't even realize they have no beef out there and will also adjust when I make it known. I find it helps a lot!