Medic shortage

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Plinko
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Medic shortage

Post by Plinko » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:43 pm

In my opinion medic is dramatically underplayed. So, what can be done? I am going to theorize about why people aren't playing them to see if there are remedies out there. Does anyone else agree, have ideas/input? if nothing else, it feels like we haven't had any good discussion about TF2 gameplay lately, so maybe this will encourage people to talk a bit!

Obviously, Medic is a critical class. They are not necessary for a team to win, but they the most necessary. I think most people would agree that a team not allowed to have medics would be at a great disadvantage vs. a team deprived of any other single class.

But, lately I've noticed I've been on a lot of teams lately where no one would play medic, no matter how obviously they were needed, and these are teams of 9-12, certainly the more players per side, the more important a medic becomes (maybe moreso at standard spawn timers than fast).
Sometimes, I play medic and usually if no one would play it I end up switching. I admit I don't love playing Medic and want to focus on getting better at other classes so I think I can sympathize with those desiring not to play it to an extent but I know I'll end up doing it sooner or later.

It seems there are a few hardcore medics, a bunch of people that play it as a 2nd or 3rd class (maybe mostly when needed), and a majority of people who never/almost never play Medic at all . I think there aren't nearly enough of the first two types around.

Medic class was first with its update/acheivements, so many people have played it out and are more interested in shiny new toys. I imagine just about anyone who doesn't already have all three unlocks at this point is just as likely to pick them up randomly anyway (I've already tossed five kritzkriegs but am still waiting for jarate or either spy watch).
To some extent, the recent sniper/spy update is still hurting by overloading spy/sniper spots, leaving many others feeling pressured to play power classes in order to balance - and medics are not all that useful to a team that's half sniper/spy/engies.
Would additional class limits help? (I know everyone hates them).
Would it be good for Valve to add additional achievements for Medics?

Playing medic means accepting a poor K/D ratio; for better or for worse, people care about their ratios a lot and that will make it less desirable to play medic. Further, it means taking a lot of deaths (negative points varied by who kills you) in exchange for greater, but fixed, points for assists (3) so it's a very poor way to build HLStats if you're low ranking (but a good way to keep getting points once you're high level).
The more subtle side is that moreso than any other class, the Medic is entirely dependent on the skill of his teammates for results. Nearly all of a Medics usefulness comes from keeping players alive and dispensing ubercharges. This can be frustrating since the statistical outcomes of assists and to a lesser extent ubercharges - are the result of what someone else does - if the people you're healing aren't getting any kills, you're not getting any assists. If your team is getting rolled it's hard to stay alive long enough to build an ubercharge unless you do it in spawn which really isn't helping for the minute or two you and another player are power-building that uber. On top of that, being a particularly weak class means you don't have a lot to do besides heal and backpedal while needling in the hopes of escape or a lucky kill.

This is a hard one, you can't make people who are big time deathmatchers just give that up. I think it would be a big mistake to make medics harder to be killed or deadlier than they are (the blutsauger already helped a LOT in my opinion).
But I can think of the following which are stat based only (I can't imagine a way for Valve to fix medic kills and deaths without unbalancing the Medic as a class):
- If HLStatsX would keep separate records for classes (or at least one for Medics and one for other classes), then it might stop discouraging players from spending time in Medic because they're afraid it will being down their total K/D ratios. This sounds whiny - but if you're a marginal player just trying to keep your head above 1:1 playing soldier or demoman, I can see how swapping to Medic hurts your ability to track your own improvement in that arena).
- If Medic assists can be fixed to a different number, is it possible to allow medics to lose 0 points for any death?
- I was going to suggest a point be given out for putting out someone on first, but I see that's already been implemented, yay!
- The assist system is a big improvement over tracking only kills, but the medic assists are far from perfect. When healing multiple people, you often don't get assist credit so you're encouraged to over focus on someone. I'd like to see up to two assists handed out per kill - one for medics/engineers: if the killer was being healed when the kill was made or had been healed for more than, say, 75 health, in the last, say, 15 seconds. If there was more than one healing source the one that provided the most healing in that time would get the credit. The other would be for acutal kill assists - those would be doled out to anyone who significantly contributed to the kill - anyone who did more than 75 damage to the target since it's last break from healing, had set the target aflame, jarate'd it, sapped it, or slowed/knocked it back would get a combat assist credit.

Obviously some of these are pie in the sky ideas - I doubt Valve will jump on these since they've already made their medic update, but its food for though and, heck, I feel like there haven't been many good discussions of TF2 gameplay lately in here. :)
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Re: Medic shortage

Post by TheCarpe » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:55 pm

I play Medic every once in a great while, and usually because nobody else will. I'm also well aware of why I don't play him much, and it's because I'm far too aggressive of a player to be effective at him. A lot of healing doesn't get done because when I see an enemy my first reaction is to shoot or melee him, not to hide behind my bigger teammate. For this reason, I don't build nor deploy many ubercharges because I die too often trying to Bonesaw Heavies :P
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Re: Medic shortage

Post by Guardian » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:55 pm

I like our conversations on TV2 when we find out we need a medic:

Me: "Can we get a medic?"

Regular: "I went medic last time"

Me: "But I wanna play demo >.>"

Another regular "Jesus should play medic"

Jesus: "I don't play medic >.>"

Me: "BAH fine I'll go medic this time but I'm playing demo next map"

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Re: Medic shortage

Post by Nick Mame » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:26 pm

I'd slate the problem as perception.

A lot of aggressive players do not appreciate the medic. They have tunnel vision where they see themselves and their opponent, largely bypassing concerns for their team. It leads to three interesting results:

First, they'll give medics a lot of unnecessary grief. They'll overlook a medic's accomplishments and blame them for the few instances where they are forced to notice the medic (mistimed uber / lack of healing). If the medic is doing well, the combat classes are dominating and place all the credit on themselves. So a good medic is never noticed - their fame goes to the person they are healing. They are often perceived to be inferior to weaker medics since they perform much more complex tasks over the entirety of the team which will rarely be noticed.

Which leads to the second result, there's very little reason to become a good medic on a public server. All you get from the journey is self satisfaction for holding the team up and a lot of mud slung in your face for when you make that one rare mistake. It's much more satisfying to dominate your opponent and induce fear into your enemy than it is to carry the entire team and be noticed only by fellow medics.

Which leads to the third result, medics are a closed community. Medics can appreciate the strengths and weaknesses of each other, but a combat exclusive player will rarely be able to gauge the depth of a medic's experience. This leads to a lot of combat players dismissing the medic's role as trivial - thinking them up as a class which can be mastered in a day with little room for growth in skill. It also leads to the previous two situations where a combat class cannot give due credit to a medic since they can't understand how strong a particular medic is.


That third result is the big problem. Unless you become competent at medic, you cannot understand medics. And if people don't understand medics, there is little incentive to play medic. For the medics, there is no glory to be had in improving on public servers. For the combat classes, there is no reason to play a class which they feel has so little room to develop.

And so medics are restricted to the demented! They're rare because it takes a very strong personality to play a class with such a subtle role. I guess HLStats might be part of it since it gives something tangible to claim credit on. Improving the stats system might give medics something to point to outside of the game to show their worth - but it wouldn't really fix the problem of perception.
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Post by Cpt. Winky » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:27 pm

I agree with Carpe on this one, but i always die due to trying to follow people out in the fray when I dont have an uber.

The way I feel is if our team has 5-7 attacking classes, I will switch to keep 4-6 people pushing, but when our team has 3 attacking classes, and I am one, im not gonna switch purely because that would leave us with a 2 person offense (im sorry, but I determined "offensive" classes as ones who should be kritzed/ubered i.e. not scouts)
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Re: Medic shortage

Post by Nick Mame » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:31 pm

Thanks to Winky, I finally remember the reason why I rarely play medic!

A medic won't help a team when there's no one to heal. And after these recent updates, there are so few people worth healing. I'll only switch to medic if we have a really good scout, a really good heavy or a decent soldier on the team. Soldiers have become so rare these days... it's more beneficial for me to play soldier myself than to heal a team of snipers and spies.

If we solve this soldier shortage we're going through (except the rare instances where for some reason the entire team is soldier), I expect I'd start playing medic more often.
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Re: Medic shortage

Post by Soltan » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:33 pm

I suppose I'm one of the hard core medics Plinko mentioned (I have nearly 1100 hrs in the class). I find medic to be the most challenging and rewarding class (I'm clearly in the minority). It's the only class that never (or at least rarely) gets accused of stealing kills from other people (they probably think that medics deserve a few kills every now and then and don't complain when I deliver the killing blow with my saw).

I personally stopped caring about KPD the moment I focused on medic as my primary class (once upon a time I had more hours at pyro than medic - I'm not kidding).

Like you, I saw a chronic shortage of medics in general and good medics in particular and decided to step up and fill that gap. Granted, my playing style tends more toward battle medic (specifically focused on ubersaw kills) than most but it works for me (my experience in the class helps me do it effectively without a significant dent in assists/ubercharges).

About the only time I won't play medic is if there are already plenty on the team (2 or 3 on a 12 man team).

If you're ever short on medics (regardless of which server you're on) send me a PM through friend chat and I'll lend a hand.
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Post by Cpt. Winky » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:34 pm

Anytime Nick, anytime......
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Re: Medic shortage

Post by TheCarpe » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:38 pm

I'm aggressive and prefer the killing to the healing, but I always thank Medics who heal me and usually thank and commend them over the mic after a good Uber. I'm no Medic expert, but I do understand the value of the class and the fact that it has as much of a curve as any other class, and I think anyone who's faced Torven or Soltan as opposed to a clearly inexperienced Medic can attest to the difference skill can make with Medics.
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Post by matt101 » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:43 pm

as a regular tv8 medic player, i have to agree with nick that people need to play medic to understand how important it is to have them on your team. As for the shortage the k/d can be really awful for a player stats, yes but that doesn't mean he a bad player overall.

My fun is more about surviving in the fray than anything else with my attack class in front taking on the whole team, well that how i feel about it.

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Post by Guardian » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:56 pm

I kinda agree with Nick.

One thing that I personally like about being a medic is sticking with a protector/medic buddy/pocket (pocket is the term them fancy comp players use) and healing everyone who's close to him. It's quite fun.

I find a medic's skills only come out in organized play or anywhere that the team is forced to work together which sadly is rare in typical pub even when there are regulars on. That's when his ubercharge (or kritz) is the most important.

Not only that but medic's don't get those awesome killing sprees all the other classes get that are placed into frag videos. There are a few ZOMG YOU JUST SAVED YOUR TEAMMATE/YOURSELF moments are more significant (you can find a lot of them in scattered about in Xensity http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhkj9Q5r5V0) but those are rare.

In the end, the medic's fun is directly related to how much the team is cooperating.

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Post by unsmart » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:08 pm

You brought up class limits. I've always been for stronger limits on support classes. For example 3 engies makes the game a lot less fun for both sides. 3 spies hurts the team and the other spies on the team. 3 snipers, when we go in having three snipers on defense or offense I always can guess that we will lose.

Lowering the number of these classes will have two effects. First it will lower these background classes. Second it will encourage more people to play offensive classes or a medic with all the new offensive classes to heal!
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Re: Medic shortage

Post by omgspoon » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:09 pm

ill usually stay away from medic unless someone asks me or we need one extremely bad, it hurts my kdr so i stay away.
i play pretty selfishly

i always seem to get soltan killed
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Post by Masakari » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:13 pm

I've been playing medic more often I must admit, but I officially want to stay out of this arguement because I'm not a typical medic.

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Post by Cpt. Winky » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:16 pm

[quote="Guardian";p="180805"]
Not only that but medic's don't get those awesome killing sprees all the other classes get that are placed into frag videos. There are a few ZOMG YOU JUST SAVED YOUR TEAMMATE/YOURSELF moments are more significant (you can find a lot of them in scattered about in Xensity http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhkj9Q5r5V0) but those are rare.
[/quote]

what are you talking about, the reason people get those awesome sprees are 95% of the time due to a medic healing them. I got a few good sprees while playing and everytime I do, I always thank whoever kritzed me cuz thats the reason I was able to mow down people.
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