TheVille

Im probably about to open a whole can of worms, so i'm wearing my flak jacket for this one.


Enter the new patch for TF2, 3 lvl 3 Sentries / Dispensers / Porters, and you have the working of a grade A stalemate.

To put it sweet, short and simple, 2 snipers is enough for warpath, 2 engies would be enough for warpath, 2 spies would be enough for warpath.

Anytime there is more than the latter of those 2 classes they suffer a barrage of complaints from the players anyway to switch to a more viable class to do some good for the team.


Enter your comments about the limits, and such and so forth, although it will more than likely deter into a war of words and opinions, its still worth addressing now.

12 SOLDIERS!!!!!!

To me, if a team had 12 people and they were both attacking and defending, this is what I would think a balanced team should be:

1 Scout
2 Soldiers
2 Pyros
1 Demoman
1 Heavy
1 Engineer
2 Medics
1 Sniper
1 Spy

If there's one thing I really dislike it's people joining a team and joining as the fourth class of something, completely ignoring the team and their needs. I hate fighting against a class spam (Four Pyros, four Demos, four Scouts, etc) and I hate having the class spam on my team.

Very rarely am I on a team with a balanced number of classes.

On a side note, one thing I really dislike is when we have a good Sniper or Spy and then suddenly, a bunch of average players decide to play as those classes too, forcing our actually GOOD player to switch so the team can stay balanced.

It's really hard to get the message out about team classes being balanced, most people tend to completely ignore whatever you say anyway and instantly pick their favorite class, no matter how many people are currently playing as it already.

I do 'bearable' limits rather than best team limits:

3 Scouts
3 Soldiers
2 Demomen
2 Pyros
2 Heavies
2 Engineers
3 Medics
2 Snipers
2 Spies

If a team has more than that number of a certain class, I often get very disgruntled; that team will have a hard time winning.

3 Scouts
3 Soldiers
3 Demomen
3 Pyros
3 Heavies
2 Engineers
No limit on Medics.
2 Snipers
2 Spies

That would be my ideal class limit on all the servers. I hate turtling. But yes, I think engies going down from 3 to 2 would be great.

I always find this funny given that VALVe provided no built-in limits for classes like the way they did with DoD and DoDS. Their intention is that the team should find their own requirements.

But then we are not VALVe.
We (server ops etc) will discuss it.

Only 2 demos? Is that to cut down on demo spam because I find many teams do well with 3-4 demos on warpath.

More than 2 snipers/spies/engies/scouts I can understand as protection for the team more than anything else, but I doubt combat classes or medics would need much in the way of limits. . .

If you have four medics, you won't have enough combat classes for them to heal. Likewise - if you have four soldiers, you won't have enough medics to heal them.

If you have three heavies, the enemy will get a sniper who will negate three of your players in exchange for one of theirs. If you have three pyros, your medics won't be able to live through enemy pyros.


Demomen are a bit more iffy. I limit them at 2 because I feel that if you need a 3rd, your first two are just really bad. One demoman should be able to take out all of the sentries - most of them without an uber to back him. A second might be wanted to defend or kill a ton of people or do other explosive things. If you get up to a third... I often think he's just replacing one of the other two.

I wouldn't argue against a limit of 3, though - it's not that significant of a difference. But I think 4 is definitely way too many for any map.

Yeah, 4 medics might be much. . . I have seen teams build 4 ubers at once in order to break some major turtling, but 98%(+) of the time its not helpful.

I've always felt that you need a mix of combat, support and healing more than you need X of certain classes. Limiting spies/snipers/engies is (I hope) an idea to keep people from defeating their own teams more than anything. . .

Also it's kind of annoying as most maps end up having

No scouts
No Soldiers
4 Demoman
2 Pyros
1 Medic
No heavies
2 snipers
3 engies

[quote="Guardian";p="142933"]Also it's kind of annoying as most maps end up having

No scouts
No Soldiers
4 Demoman
2 Pyros
1 Medic
No heavies
2 snipers
3 engies[/quote]

you have pretty much described every annoying turtling team on warpath.

[quote="fruitman";p="142903"]
No limit on Medics.[/quote]

There can always be too much of a good thing. Don't you remember the Medic Stampede right after the Medic update? Full teams consisting of 7-8 Medics each?

These are public servers. If we get too restrictive, people won't get to play a class they like and they will leave. The limits we have now seem to be a pretty good balance between giving players a choice and keeping a decent class composition. It also leaves room in case a few unskilled players take up some of the limited class slots.

First off, I second what Stevo said. I think that class limits should be used for balance issues such as too many engies causing problems on Attack/Defend maps or stalemates on CP maps. Just my opinion.

P.S. This is my first post

Thxe

Welcome, Thxe!