Battletech

[Flaming Cheese Wheel]

...because I don't want to clutter up the Mechwarrior Online topic with things that might not be directly related to it.

And because I miss bathing in classic boardgame munchkin discussions.

[BigBiker05]

Flaming Cheese wheel. This post cost me $2,000. I had a seizure from all your gifs and I don't have medical insurance.

[Flaming Cheese Wheel]

This will recall the chat with CSS and OMA from Wednesday:

From the 'froup, a long time ago, utilitarian cheese. I don't see your game's tech tree reaching this point, but here go are:

Code: Select all

Carletti CRL-1T

Cost: 7,234,560 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,811

Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h (64.8 km/h)
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h (97.2 km/h)
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    2  PPCs
    6  Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

Additional: 


================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    99 points                3.00
    Internal Locations: 5 LT, 4 RT, 2 LA, 3 RA
Engine:             Fusion Engine                300                      19.00
    Walking MP: 5 (6)
    Running MP: 8 (9)
    Jumping MP: 0 
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             11(22)                    1.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
    TSM Locations: 3 LT, 3 RT
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 197                 11.00
    Armor Locations: 1 HD, 2 LT, 2 RT, 3 LA, 2 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL

                                                      Internal       Armor      
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     20           29        
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  11        
                                           L/R Torso     14           21        
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  7         
                                             L/R Arm     10           20        
                                             L/R Leg     14           26        

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Medium Lasers                              CT        6         2         2.00
2 Medium Lasers                              RT        6         2         2.00
2 Medium Lasers                              LT        6         2         2.00
PPC                                          RA        10        3         7.00
PPC                                          LA        10        3         7.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 1

The Triple-Strength Myomer is what really does it.

Meanwhile, there was some significant advocacy of the CHP-1N Champion back in the day. DHS would make it better, but otherwise it was like a Dragon with real weapons.

Given the pre-2002 rules and the chance for a lot of vehicles and infantry to appear, my force, which is not your force, would have had a lot of Unseens, given their predilections toward MGs and SRMs. Or yeah, a lance of Warhammers, a lance of Thunderbolts, and a mixed lance of Griffins and Phoenix Hawks.

[(LSAP)Duke Nukem]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pyCsu0QRO0

I think yall will appreciate this little vid

[frostdillicus]

Just played my first TT game last night. Won my first game thanks to my friends terrible rolls. I did 20+ damage, knocked his pilot unconscious so he automatically failed his pilot check to remain standing, fell over and then crit on the fall which blew up his LRM ammo.

Second game I wasn't so lucky.

Overall it was pretty fun. Will play again.

[crimsonshootingstar]

Yeah I am running a campaign now using A Time of War to create characters. My players are going to be a unit of Kellhounds just prior to the clan invasion.

[Flaming Cheese Wheel]

The ones in the FedCom or Phelan's battalion?

Regarding the Urbanmech video: The small laser isn't the problem, it's the AC/10. Or 20.

(Or, since I've done Urbie variants with every heavy weapon available before 3058, an Arrow IV or a Gauss Rifle or an LRM-20 or...)

[One_Medic_Army]

ALl I have to say about Crimson's Battletech campaign is this:
Speed+Jumpjets+cover=win.

[Flaming Cheese Wheel]

I should write up fluff text for this, but the general idea I was working with is that this unit was formed from the descendants of some troops that left the Eridani Light Horse some time in the past. That only kinda sorta excuses the wildly-eclectic mixture of 'Mech designs that I've chosen. This is not totally munchy, it's just... a mild cheese.

And yeah, it's all 3025 original tech, none of that fancy stuff.

Command Lance
HGN-733 Highlander
VTR-9B Victor
EMP-5A Emperor (Okay, slightly more rare)
CPLT-C4 Catapult

(Unit name) 'Mech Company

Heavy Lance
TDR-5SE Thunderbolt
GHR-5H Grasshopper
GLT-4L Guillotine
DV-6M Dervish

Medium Lance
OSR-2M Ostroc (Rare unit #1)
GRF-1N Griffin
PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk
VL-2T Vulcan

Recon Lance
PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk
SDR-5V Spider
FS9-M Firestarter (Rare unit #2)
JVN-10F Javelin

(Unit name) Armor Company

Assault Hover Platoon
2x Drillson (Fusion) (You can't possibly imagine how much fun it was in the early days when FASA released Technical Readout books with massive mathematical/typographical errors in them. See also the Condor.)
2x Saracen

Condors!
4x Condor

Scout Hover Platoon
2x Pegasus (The Plainsman would be fun too, but it's too early.)
2x J. Edgar

Second Hover Company

Annoying Savannah Master Platoon
4x Savannah Master (While we're at it, let us note the Gabriel, Beagle, and for all that's hideously expensive, the Fox Armored Car.)

Fire Support Platoon
4x LRM Maxim (Custom modification replacing the infantry bay, LRM-5s and SRM-6 with a single turret-mounted LRM-20 and 3 tons of ammo.)

Everything Else

Infantry Battalion
Weighted at 3 tons/platoon as foot infantry, carried in 12 Maxim hovercraft. With a minor modification (removing the rear-firing LRM-5), this could be a battalion of jump infantry, which is more in line with the unit as a whole.

2x Sniper Artillery, carried by... something.

(Unit name) Fighter Squadron
Command Flight
2x SL-15 Slayer

A Flight
2x Thunderbird

B Flight
2x CSR-V12 Corsair

C Flight
2x Lightning

Transport Section

4x Karnov UR Transport

Overlord-2
Seeker (The loadout for these guys does not match any stock design, but there's enough leeway in the design of Dropships that you could cram an infantry battalion, a vehicle company, and two fighters into a Seeker. I could have used a Condor, but mixing aerodyne and spheroid DropShips together would be a logistical headache.)
(Or you could take a Mule and Q-Ship it, which is much more amusing.)

Invader-class Jumpship

[Flaming Cheese Wheel]

Having done a lot of refresher reading, I remain a bit annoyed that the retconned Star-League-era 'Mechs are often given weapons loadouts that don't really match how the designs first appeared, and are weirdly OP. A Phoenix Hawk with an ERPPC and a Large Laser? What?

[Flaming Cheese Wheel]

@OMA: Something else to try from Level 1 only. Not a big fan of leg-mounted JJs, but I'm starting from the base design here.

VIEW CONTENT:

Code: Select all

Enforcer ENF-4R

Mass: 50 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/C-E-D
Production Year: 2777
Cost: 3,413,875 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,077

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 200 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    2  Large Lasers
    1  Small Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      83 points                5.00
Engine:             Fusion Engine                200                       8.50
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6
    Jumping MP: 4 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 LL, 2 RL                                         2.00
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             19                        9.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 HD, 2 CT, 4 LT, 4 RT
Gyro:               Standard                                               2.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA    R: SH+UA+LA
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 160                 10.00

                                                      Internal       Armor      
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     16           24        
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  7         
                                           L/R Torso     12           20        
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  4         
                                             L/R Arm     8            16        
                                             L/R Leg     12           20        

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Small Laser                                  LT        1         1         0.50
Large Laser                                  RA        8         2         5.00
Large Laser                                  LA        8         2         5.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 29

If you want to jump and fire with no heat issues, swap the small laser for a half-ton of armor, drop half a ton of armor, and add a heat sink.

Also buried in the 3025-era variants is the TBT-5J Trebuchet, which has 5/8/5 movement. It would be better as a 55-ton 'Mech, but you get to stay slightly under cost. The LRM-15 only has eight reloads, so...

VIEW CONTENT:

Code: Select all

Trebuchet TBT-5J

Mass: 50 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Introductory
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-E-D
Production Year: 2850
Cost: 4,226,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,031

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 250 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  Large Laser
    2  SRM-4s
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      83 points                5.00
Engine:             Fusion Engine                250                      12.50
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 5 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL                                   2.50
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             15                        5.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 5 LT
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 128                  8.00

                                                      Internal       Armor      
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     16           22        
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  7         
                                           L/R Torso     12           15        
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  5         
                                             L/R Arm     8            10        
                                             L/R Leg     12           15        

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SRM-4                                        RT        3         1         2.00
Large Laser                                  RA        8         2         5.00
SRM-4                                        LA        3         1         2.00
@SRM-4 (50)                                  RT        -         2         2.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 32

I know the armor is crappy, but the idea is to hang back a bit, pop some laser shots in, and then SRM for crits. Or this, if you don't like the snipe-and-SRM plan:

VIEW CONTENT:

Code: Select all

Trebuchet TBT-5J

Mass: 50 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Introductory
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-E-D
Production Year: 2850
Cost: 4,346,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,268

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 250 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  PPC
    2  Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      83 points                5.00
Engine:             Fusion Engine                250                      12.50
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 5 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL                                   2.50
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             15                        5.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 5 LT
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 158                 10.00

                                                      Internal       Armor      
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     16           22        
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  5         
                                           L/R Torso     12           20        
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  4         
                                             L/R Arm     8            16        
                                             L/R Leg     12           21        

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Laser                                 RT        3         1         1.00
PPC                                          RA        10        3         7.00
Medium Laser                                 LA        3         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 33

You can't totally fight without overheating, but you can full jump and shoot a PPC without overheating. Again, I'm starting with plain old 3025 here. You can quickly see how adding advanced technology to the game totally screwed with balance.

[One_Medic_Army]

Ended up with a slightly modified Wolverine, the variant with the large laser.

[Flaming Cheese Wheel]

The 6M is a good variant.

Note how similar it is to the GRF-1S.

Or, as you might have gathered from the past few months in MWO's Bizarroworld, in tabletop the AC/5 is usually ripped out for a PPC or LL...

I have a peculiar fondness for the Starslayer.

[Flaming Cheese Wheel]

Something that occurs to me when I look through my '80s FASA stuff is that character stats are often inconsistent, or they gave allegedly very good pilots only average stats.

Worth considering when our (and your) RP group is rolling pilots with 3 and 2 piloting and gunnery target numbers...

(Or: We used to miss a lot, so we just walked up to the enemy and punched and kicked them as much as we could. Especially kicked.)

[One_Medic_Army]

No joy there.
Crimson's decided that punching and kicking was too easy for the players.
Mech Melee has been added as a skill, enemies are assumed to have it at a rank equivalent to their pilot skill.
We have to pay for it.

Also kicking was waaaaay too good, so the damage has been cut back to be the same as a punch.