Some Engineer tips.

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[BIO] The German
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Some Engineer tips.

Post by [BIO] The German » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:05 pm

I'm getting pretty annoyed when unexperienced engineers take up the engineering slots on class restricted maps, making the team suffer.

So, here's some tips to benefit us all :p


General Hints

* While there are some situations where cowering behind your sentry wrenching it is a good idea (namely when an uber heavy is shooting at it), it is much more effective to keep moving, all the time. Never stand still. Never walk more than 10 meters without sidestepping or spinning. I always keep moving, even when upgrading a sentry or repairing it.

* Roam with your shotgun, keeping some distance between you and the sentry. this way enemies have to fight two enemies that can dish out significant hurt and the sentry will severely limit their movement.

* More often than not, enemies concentrating on getting rid of a sentry are open to being flanked wit the shotgun.

* Dispensers make great blocks for doors. Anyone jumping over them is usually a spy since friendly people can walk through them. Also, few spies can resist zapping a dispenser at a chokepoint, immediately blowing their disguise.

* If there are a lot of teleporters on your team, anyone walking from the spawn is probably a spy. shoot them.

* The shotgun is quite powerful even at mid range. Use it. (1/3rd of my engineer kills are shotgun kills)

* Don't reload your shotgun in close quarter battles, use q to switch to handgun and keep firing.

* Don't engage people with the wrench if you're not repairing at the same time or out of ammo on the shotgun. Spies often get lucky with frontal backstabs and other classes have more capable melee weapons.

* Any building makes for great advance warning system. Putting them in certain spots (such as behind the house on the second dustbowl map) will often give you advance warnings about spies zapping them (... and subsequently getting killed because they gave away their presence in a narrow passage...).

* An ubered heavy can not take down a sentry that you are repairing while hiding behind it, provided you have enough metal. Just keep repairing and eventually their uber runs out and the sentry chunks them.

* While there are 'premium locations' for sentries that provide best protection for your teams cap points, putting a sentry in unexpected locations where you never saw anyone put one often results in a large number of surprise kills.

* After a while, people know your sentry and either mount a coordinated effort to take it down or avoid it. Unless you're in a vital spot with it (cap defense) or really trying for sentry points, move it somewhere else after a while. Works great on maps with two path to the cap as scouts will have gotten used to their 'free route' and will feed your sentry. Especially on close quarter maps like 2Fort, there is nearly an infinite amount of possible sentry locations that can score 2-3 surprise kills for free.

* Engineers in sudden death are vulnerable to instant kills by spies and snipers, destroying their sentries in process. An engineer alone usually won't stop the enemy when outnumbered in sudden death, especially not when sitting around as a stationary target behind his sentry. I usually avoid engineer in sudden death and go demoman or spy instead, gives you a better chance at stopping the enemy even at greater odds.

* On many maps it is possible to rebuild a sentry after it was destroyed very fast due to ammo packs. Especially if the other team uses voice comm, they might still be thinking that "the sentry in the courtyard is down" and run right into your newly created sentry. Slightly moving it to a different location helps as well.

* I tend to destroy my own buildings rather than letting a zapper wear them down if there is no chance of getting there. No point in giving free points to a spy, unless you feel pity for him because you're dominating him the 6th time. Additionally people don't get the 'sentry destroyed' message, meaning they don't know that a particular part of the map is now unprotected.

* Don't put your sentry directly next to someeone elses. They will just overlap the same area, you'll get more assists and less kills and most importantly, any spy or uber combo will have a field day ripping through them while there are multiple people running all over the place to repair. Multiple spread out sentries are much harder to take down by a single uber and spies usually have to travel between them making it easier to identify who the spy is.

Classes

Spies

Weirdly enough, of all classes, the spy has the worst odds at succeeding against a good engineer.

* Spies are free points. Seriously. I've played spies for most of the last season and engineer for most of this season. My kpd against spies is something like 30:1. My domination history is full of failed spies. Unless they suicide by taking you out in front of your sentry, they have very bad cards against getting a kill against a good engineer if you keep moving and stay paranoid.

* Play spy. Become good at it. Really good. Learn the routes you take as a spy, the locations where you cloak is running out and you have to recharge and the best ways to take down engineers. Now apply that knowledge as an engineer.

* Hitcheck every team member wielding their primary weapon. Don't shoot once or twice, use up the full shotgun if the situation permits as their health meter often will lag.

* People with your teleporter glow are never spies. Don't annoy them with your shotgun.

* Enemy spies can not be walked through. If you get stuck walking anywhere, immediately spin and start shooting. If you get stuck bumping into a teammate, sidestep and shoot. Get out of knife range.

* Team members that hesitate or stop moving when you move towards them are spies in 90% of the cases. Shoot them. Use VoiceComm to call out class and name of the spy.

* Bad spies go for the sentry first. Your sentry, unless it's in a 'premium spot' defending a vital point is not important. If the spy zaps the sentry, switch to shotgun or wrench and take him down. You can try to repair but usually the spy will win as a zapper can be added in one click but it takes two clicks to remove it. Sometimes repairing and sending a wrench blow toward the spy will do the trick, but in most cases, go after the spy and rebuild the sentry afterwards.

* The revolver is more powerful than your shotgun or handgun at mid to long range. Bad spies try to run or use the knife - shotgun them or quickly unsap your sentry to get it to chunk them. Good spies will draw the revolver - retreat.

* Don't let them lure you away behind a corner. A good spy will try to get you from your sentry and then wait for you with his revolver around the corner.

* Often pretending that you haven't seen the spy allows you to creep up behind him and shoot him close range.

* If you cower behind your sentry or above your dispenser, a good spy can take you out even behind a level 3 sentry and walk away with a few scratches. There aren't many players who can do this reliably, but if you notice it happening, adjust to it. Don't camp behind your gun, keep moving. It increases the odds of bumping into enemy spies and wrench them before they can unloak.

* Your sentry can kill you. Some skilled spies actually decloak behind you to get your own sentry to kill you, especially on corners where they can get away. Never walk between a spy and your sentry while repairing, removing the sapper can often cause your sentry to open fire, killing you.


Soldiers

* Soldiers at mid to long range are mostly harmless. Only their crit rockets pose significant danger, otherwise you can shotgun them to death while they try lobbing rockets at you that are easy to dodge, especially if your sentry prevents them from moving offensively to engage you.

* You have much better speed than they have. Use it to your advantage by maintaining a healthy range.

* Soldiers at short range are deadly. If you get jumped, shotgun and try to get range and hope you'll crit before they get a good shot at you.


Scouts

* Scouts are very dangerous when encountered outside of your sentries range. Direct shootouts with a good scout will lead to death in about 70% of the cases if they use the scatter gun. You can't outrun them, so shotgun and pray. I think most of my deaths are related to running into a stray scout behind the frontlines.

* Scouts can snipe your sentry with their handgun from range with surprising speed and accuracy. Keep repairing and use your handgun or shotgun on them until they have to retreat for health. Do not engage in close combat, they'll own you.


Pyro

* Unless they jump you, pyros are not very dangerous. Walking backwards from them while shotgunning works surprisingly well, especially if they don't switch to shotgun. Walking backwards knowing that your sentry is behind the next corner is even better

* Pyros can circle strafe your level 3 sentry and take it down fast. Don't repair. Get range and unload your shotgun, in 90% of the cases they get the sentry and then die to your shotgun blasts.

* Uber pyros will destroy your sentry and you can't do poop about it. Run. Once the uber wears off, pop down a sentry at range and start shooting at the medic


Demo Man

* A skilled demo man can be annoying, but in 1:1 they're still up against you and your sentry. Get some distance from your sentry, shotgun them and if they don't manage to take down the sentry, run and repair it in between.

* Uber demoman are bad news. Your sentry will be toast, just run.

* Demomen are great allies when you are maintaining a mission critical sentry (such as protecting the cap on Dustbowl). Ask them to put one sticky below your sentry so they can blow it up if you're fighting with a spy zapping it.


Medic

* They can't do anything if you stay within range of your sentry. Period.

* Their bonesaw is bad news, so don't go melee. Their needlegun outdamages your shotgun at point blank range, so engage them from mid range where they have to adjust the falloff for their needles to hit you.


Heavy

* A heavy can not take down your sentry if you keep repairing it, and the sentry will keep most of his bullets from hitting you, so if you have a dispenser, they're gonna run out of ammo faster than you run out of iron.

* Obviously melee is not the brightest of ideas (they take 3-4 wrench hits easily and instant kill you with a single hit most of the time)

* Heavies make great allies if you give them a dispenser. They can keep shooting their minigun, making it all but impossible for spies close in (e.g. in the 2fort courtyard). They also can cover any dead angle that your sentry might have.


Sniper

* Your shotgun beats their MP, but some snipers have vicious close range sniping skills, so keep jumping and shotgun them to death.

* They can take down your sentry with 1-3 shots and you won't outrepair them if nobody goes after them. I usually get distancea nd then blow up my sentry and rebuild it in a safer spot.

* They can headshot you hiding behind your sentry, so use the time they shoot at your sentry to get the hell out of there.

* Snipers are another reason why you want to keep moving all the time. Cowering stationary behind your sentry is like asking for headshots. If you keep moving, they often try to take out the gun first, alerting you that you are exposed.



As an Engineer, don't expect to get to the top of the kill board all the time (it happens, but usually only if one team is very reckless). However, you will end up with a kpd score much higher than anyone else, which is exceptionally handy when in the top50 where you lose about 25 points per death:

Image Image.

Note: The people dominated are usually spies, sometime scouts.


Dustbowl, First Map, offense

Premium spots [sup]1[/sup]: none

* If you seee more than 2 engineers on offense on this map, you might want to consider switching teams, because you're likely not gonna win with that team :p

First point

* Right at the start, when your team stats fighting for the first point, put up a dispenser halfway to the cap. This will allow Heavies to maintain constant fire into the point.

* If the battle for the first point takes longer and your team constantly gets rushed by suicidal pyros, put a sentry aimed at the door halfway through.

Second point

There's not a lot you can contribute for the rush on the second point. However, the following things will make your teams job a lot easier.

* Put a teleporter into the upper corridor.

Your primary job is to ensure that those mad dashing pyros, spies and soldiers aren't getting behind your team members getting into any of the corridors. The following measures help a lot.

* Put a dispenser on the door to the bridge leaving the first cap building to the upper tunnel. Spies won't be able to walk through and as a result will either zap it or spend time jumping on it, wearing down their cloak and giving away their disguise.

* Put a sentry left or right off the two lower tunnel exits towards your spawn. Now start patrolling the area with your shotgun. After a bunch of kills, move the sentry to the other side and watch pyros running headon into the wrong corner, making them easy targets for your sentry.

* It usually works well to play pyro bait by running into the corridors, let them chase you and lead them into your sentry. The average pyro falls for this at least three times before giving up. The large health kit in the first cap is your friend as well.

Image


* Don't hide behind your sentry. Instead roam with your shotgun. This way it's two versus one and enemies are at a huge disadvantage. Most enemies go down in 3-5 shotgun blasts and if they chase after you the sentry chunks them.

* If enemies go for you, retreat in the first cap hut to heal. The sentry can be rebuilt in seconds due to the large ammo pack in the hut.

* If someone already put a sentry to protect the lower tunnel, put yours into the upper tunnel to shield your team against jumpers. If it's not getting any kills there, switching classes might be in order - demomen are always needed on the map.


Enjoy

... more to come ...


1) Spots that absolutely need a sentry. If no team mate builds there, build there.
Last edited by [BIO] The German on Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:58 am, edited 17 times in total.
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Re: Some Engineer tips.

Post by TheCarpe » Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:22 pm

Nice guide!
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Re: Some Engineer tips.

Post by Clay Pigeon » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:01 pm

Wait, Im not supposed to use my wrench for everything? :?:
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Re: Some Engineer tips.

Post by Stevo » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:20 pm

Those are all good tips. :cooler:

[BIO] The German
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Re: Some Engineer tips.

Post by [BIO] The German » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:32 pm

[quote="Clay Pigeon";p="54933"]Wait, Im not supposed to use my wrench for everything? :?:[/quote]

I should have added "unless you are Clay". Most bonesaws and most wrenches yesterday. *Shudder*

Also the mandatory: If you see a certain pyro with a fire axe, understand that he WILL suicide to axe you, so if you are obsessed about your kpd score (like I am), just run.
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Post by l3eeron » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:43 pm

Thanks for putting all those great tips to words...
you r0x :cooler:

Achtung!!!

Sentry ahead!

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Re: Some Engineer tips.

Post by Barrel Bomber » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:44 pm

nice guide :D
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Re: Some Engineer tips.

Post by TheCarpe » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:28 pm

[quote="[BIO] The German";p="54949"]Also the mandatory: If you see a certain pyro with a fire axe, understand that he WILL suicide to axe you, so if you are obsessed about your kpd score (like I am), just run.[/quote]

Note to self: Axe German AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE!
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Post by [BIO] The German » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:55 pm

[quote="TheCarpe";p="54967"]
[quote="[BIO] The German";p="54949"]Also the mandatory: If you see a certain pyro with a fire axe, understand that he WILL suicide to axe you, so if you are obsessed about your kpd score (like I am), just run.[/quote]

Note to self: Axe German AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE!
[/quote]

Oh nooes, free points 8)

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Re: Some Engineer tips.

Post by b.TiMe. » Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:35 pm

nicely done.
c-ups?
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Post by Element » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:26 pm

Well, I agree with most of that, except the part about that wrench... For some reason, wrench gives an instant kill against someone who is attacking my sentry (more annoyingly, when I am attacking a sentry) So I'd have to say using the wrench against someone is usually pretty good... Which is one of the few things I hate most about tf2, lol.

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Re: Some Engineer tips.

Post by Nanite » Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:57 pm

For all you anti engineer guys like me. Killing the Sentry IS NOT your first priority. Killing the dispenser and then the engy is. If the sentry kills you no big deal. With no dispenser and no engy it's an easy kill for the rest of the team.
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Post by Element » Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:03 pm

Very true, nanite. And also, it's incredibly easy to kill an engineer that is just hiding behind a sentry. Time right, a spy can backstab the engineer and sap the sentry before it has time to turn around. One of my favorite spy tricks actually. :P Even when a sentry is hiding in a corner, a cloaked spy can jump onto the engineer's back and uncloak without the engineer ever realizing it... Also a favorite trick of mine...

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Re: Some Engineer tips.

Post by TheCarpe » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:39 pm

Yes, the Engi is always my top priority. Without him, the SG is just sitting there waiting to be destroyed by a concentrated rush, ubercharge, or long range rockets/Sniper.

Honestly, I love blasting an Engi in the head as a Sniper while he whacks away on his stuff with his wrench. Then I can just pick the rest off.
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Re: Some Engineer tips.

Post by Agent X » Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:36 pm

Awesome tips German. Thanks for sharing those. They are extremly helpful as I've started playing more support roles and not just the Rocket Jumping Soldier as much lately. I was observing your sentry placements the other night in 2fort (see first screenie :) ) and was already getting some tips from that as well. Thanks!
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