Spawn camping

[Torven]

[quote="Reipin";p="115706"]You know I would never put a sentry near a spawn just to get kills. It had a real purpose.[/quote]
The gun was sitting point blank on a spawn door for two minutes with no appreciable movement by your team on the nearby objective.

Switching teams to unbalance a game because one person does something you don't like is something you should reconsider as well, but I've been over that with you as well. You refuse to see the fact that you are hurting the other 10 people on the team just because you are unhappy with one.

It wasn't just the sentry at A that made me switch; it was the reaction of the team to it, which was either ambivalence or, in your case, support. Think what you want, but I do not support those kinds of tactics, and I will not be part of a team that condones them.

Last night you refused to heal me in game because of the sentry and that's that.

Actually, I did heal you; it's just that your tactics put you at the bottom of my priority list.

[Reipin]

I sent you a PM Torven. Respond to it if you want, but let's leave this out of the thread.

Don't say I was spawn camping for K/D cause that is not true.

[Infusions]

If I ever find myself being spawn camped, I join a new server.

LOLOOLOLOLOLOL!!!

I've been told that spawn camping as a Spy is usually a good tatic in some cases. Backstabbing engies as they go in or out so you can easily take out their sentry for one. And if Red has long respawn, then getting any heavies or soldiers that come out so your team has a bigger opportunity to cap is another.

Of course they'll catch on, but for the minute or two that you're able to get away with it without being caught might be enough to change the tide of a battle.

[Rakshasas]

[quote="Torven";p="115696"]The other team not taking precautions against you spawncamping is never an reason to spawncamp. Putting a gun aimed directly into a spawn door like that was completely inexcusable, and I am extremely disappointed that someone from one of our guilds would go to such lengths to try to win a map.[/quote]

I was reluctant to make a post under this topic, but I really can't help myself. From what I read, Reipin placed a sentry outside the blue window, up on top of the ledge that overlooks A, and a path that leads to reds spawn. Said sentry gun is capable of shooting people coming out of that hallway in the spot that is directly ontop of the staircase, which has a very mediocre shelter in the form of some kind of hut. It cannot shoot into the spawn, or near the spawn. Nor could stickies placed in the same spot.

If I am correct that this is the spot under discussion, then the rest of my post is valid, if not. Oops wrong area.

In any case, here I go. First of all, that is not a spawn area. I wont call out the person by name, but someone already got on my case for sticky nading that exact area. As I said before, that is not a spawn area, it is a small area outside the spawn. Just because it just so happens to be one door leading out of that area doesn't make it an extended spawn. At no time were nades, or sentries around the actual spawn door causing mayhem.

Also, A is right there. What is the point in doing anything in Steel if you can't actually take A. And don't tell me you can take A without killing people coming out that hallway, because of the proximity to A and that hallway, you have a very very short time to deal with people. I've seen that area be constantly naded to holy hell, and Red still has enough people coming out to retake A.

Why? Because the fast spawns & short trip factor, while blue has to run a significant way to get back to A. It's a hard map to advance on, and who honestly wants to be locked on A the whole time?

Conclusion: That is not a spawn door, at no time are people spawning directly behind it. People spawn further back, behind another set of doors.

I think people take spawn camping way too seriously. It's a game, and a game where you will die... a lot, if I have anything to say about it

[Reipin]

That's one of the examples rak.

The other one is dual sentrying up the E point while A and E are the two active. Go through B to E. When you come out in front of E you drop a sentry on that ledge right there. The other sentry goes to the left up the stairs in front of the E spawn door (B spawn is still open and the sniper roost is still open immediately through the A point). The reason you have to put the sentry in front of the E door is that the E door is elevated up stairs and surrounded by a railing which will completely nullify the sentry if it isn't placed there. In other words, there is no point in putting sentries at E if you don't put it in the two places I said because they will either be out of range or be blocked from firing.

[mr_s]

[/quote][quote="Rigges (CTR)";p="115703"]
No worries mate... oops stole Mr.S's line LOL
[/quote]

lol.

[quote="Plinko";p="115707"]

I think there's confusion because I (and I assume many others) rarely see anyone warned for spawn camping, but see behavior some people (not necessarily Admins) in this thread have called out as spawn camping - so knowing what is OK is tough.
[/quote]

well said mate


Also, Lets all have a group hug and get along shall we?

Pass the peace pipe round

[Torven]

[quote="Reipin";p="115894"]That's one of the examples rak.

The other one is dual sentrying up the E point while A and E are the two active. Go through B to E. When you come out in front of E you drop a sentry on that ledge right there. The other sentry goes to the left up the stairs in front of the E spawn door (B spawn is still open and the sniper roost is still open immediately through the A point). The reason you have to put the sentry in front of the E door is that the E door is elevated up stairs and surrounded by a railing which will completely nullify the sentry if it isn't placed there. In other words, there is no point in putting sentries at E if you don't put it in the two places I said because they will either be out of range or be blocked from firing.[/quote]

If you can't put a sentry somewhere without it being right up against the spawn door, then maybe you should write it off on poor map design and not put a sentry there. The map was not created with our community rules in mind; that does not mean they do not still apply.

Rak, if you can't take A without camping that platform, then you are doing something wrong. The point has so much cover from that side that Red cannot come after attackers on the point without coming up that narrow ramp or going all the way around the point.

[Reipin]

[gamji]

Personally the only tactic I would call spawn camping in the current iteration of TF2 is a demo putting pipes on a spawn door. Even then if the demo isn't really quick a pyro can airblast them out of the way.

Spies and pyros outside the door are possible to deal with. A sentry gun outside a spawn door is just a 10 second speed bump for a whole lot of energy expended.

Generally when I see people complaining about spawn camping it's really because the teams are massively unbalanced and the defending team has pushed the attackers all the way back to their spawn. That isn't really camping so much as an indication that some of the better players need to switch teams if they want to have a good game.

[Devastator]

OK in my opinion spawn camping is used for unskilled players who cant kill anybody mean and cos
also they are frustrated and by the way i have saw many guild villuns do it W T F about that

[Devastator]

Ups.... forgot to mention spawn camping is also PATHETIC ......

[b.TiMe.]

[quote="gamji";p="115979"]
Personally the only tactic I would call spawn camping in the current iteration of TF2 is a demo putting pipes on a spawn door. Even then if the demo isn't really quick a pyro can airblast them out of the way.

Spies and pyros outside the door are possible to deal with. A sentry gun outside a spawn door is just a 10 second speed bump for a whole lot of energy expended.

Generally when I see people complaining about spawn camping it's really because the teams are massively unbalanced and the defending team has pushed the attackers all the way back to their spawn. That isn't really camping so much as an indication that some of the better players need to switch teams if they want to have a good game.
[/quote]

truth

[Rakshasas]

[quote="Torven";p="115937"]
Rak, if you can't take A without camping that platform, then you are doing something wrong. The point has so much cover from that side that Red cannot come after attackers on the point without coming up that narrow ramp or going all the way around the point.[/quote]

Torven you have to think about spawn timers and distance to the point. I don't want to play steel, or any other map, over and over and over, and never get past A.

Red spawns right on top of the point, in about 5 seconds from the time they were killed. Blue has to run significantly far in order to get back to point A. So while you are right about the cover you are forgetting the most important thing. Think of it this way, if it requires 2 red people to kill one blue person on that point, a simple war of attrition means that Red will be able to stop blue from capping probably around 3/4 of the way because they return to the fight much faster than blue does, and by the time blue can get back on the point as a team (taking out all the red sentries, clearing red stickies from the point, etc...) there is a very high chance that the point will have completely reverted.

We played Steel last night Torven, I recall a few rounds where blue couldn't get past A, and a few were they were (and I saw heavies and demo's on that ledge shooting as red people came out.) Red spawns further in, and can clear stickies with pyro airblast, soldier rockets and demo nades, or the plain old fashioned way, running over the mines and taking one for the team. Plenty of ways to deal with the problem. And as for blue sentries, it would be very hard for a sentry to be placed on that ledge, red can practically spit on it just to destroy it.

[TheCarpe]

[quote="Rakshasas";p="116056"][quote="Torven";p="115937"]
Rak, if you can't take A without camping that platform, then you are doing something wrong. The point has so much cover from that side that Red cannot come after attackers on the point without coming up that narrow ramp or going all the way around the point.[/quote]

Torven you have to think about spawn timers and distance to the point. I don't want to play steel, or any other map, over and over and over, and never get past A.

Red spawns right on top of the point, in about 5 seconds from the time they were killed. Blue has to run significantly far in order to get back to point A. So while you are right about the cover you are forgetting the most important thing. Think of it this way, if it requires 2 red people to kill one blue person on that point, a simple war of attrition means that Red will be able to stop blue from capping probably around 3/4 of the way because they return to the fight much faster than blue does, and by the time blue can get back on the point as a team (taking out all the red sentries, clearing red stickies from the point, etc...) there is a very high chance that the point will have completely reverted.

We played Steel last night Torven, I recall a few rounds where blue couldn't get past A, and a few were they were (and I saw heavies and demo's on that ledge shooting as red people came out.) Red spawns further in, and can clear stickies with pyro airblast, soldier rockets and demo nades, or the plain old fashioned way, running over the mines and taking one for the team. Plenty of ways to deal with the problem. And as for blue sentries, it would be very hard for a sentry to be placed on that ledge, red can practically spit on it just to destroy it.[/quote]

I believe the controversial sentry in this case was built on E, to my knowledge, in the doorway to E from B.

[Nick Mame]

That one hasn't been mentioned. They're talking about a sentry built on the raised platform leading to the spawn door at E. If you aren't familiar with the map, it'd be several inches from the spawn door.