Grapedrink's sniper guide

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Grapedrink's sniper guide

Post by Grapedrink » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:00 pm

Mine won't be as fancy or organized as yahoo's, but I've been giving random tips to a lot of snipers over the last few months, and figured I should just get some written down. And to answer any upfront objections, I know i'm not the best sniper in the world, but maybe with some of my knowledge some of you can be :p.

The best tip Know the Map
No matter how good of a sniper you are, if you don't know the map you don't know how to play sniper properly, Much of being a sniper is knowing your enemy, what they tend to do, and where they are coming from. You can't know any of these things without intimate knowledge of a map. more and more maps that tf2 is putting out have tons of pathways, which leads to people being able sneak up behind you, if you don't know these paths, or the tendencies of the players, you will most likely be killed from behind more than you kill anyone.



Weapons
second, your weapons. you have your primary sniper rifle, your smg, and your machette. One thing if you look at my hlxstats you will notice I have a machine gunner award almost every day I play, and I never have the machette award. Why is this? I hate melee. I can't do it, I try to melee and I wiff every single time. What does this mean for you? If you can do it, more power to you, I have been beaten by random melee crits many times (much to my dismay) I however think the smg is a much more consistent option.

SMG
Why I like the smg. First, it's very accurate, it's like firing off pistol shots really rapidly, so if you are good with the pistol, you will be good with the smg. Second, it's EXCELLENT for finishing off ranged opponents when you didn't quite kill them, I have even been known to rush heavies with my smg in my time. You get a pot shot off at their head but didn't have time to charge up, means they are probably pretty close to dead and can rush them. Most of the classes that are your main enemies will be soldiers and demomen, which I think are notably bad at close range since any damage they do to you, they do to themselves, so get in close, stay in close and you can smg them down.

Sniper Rifle
Sniper rifle. Just incase any of you haven't ever played or never figured this stuff out, the longer you are scoped in the more damage you will do, to a maximum of being scoped in at 4.5 seconds and doing 450 damage with a headshot, see the correlation? being scoped for one second and a head shot will roughly do 100 damage, not enough to kill any class but wound most. This is important to keep an active count in your head, I will explain more on that later. The last thing I have to say initially is don't be afraid to take body shots, ESPECIALLY when counter sniping or sniping someone up close. generally that half a second time it takes for you to find and focus on the head is all it takes for the other person to kill you since you have very little health.

KEEPING A COUNT
It is important to keep a running count in your head. First is because when you are sniping, Snipers and spies are your biggest enemies, and generally if you aren't looking for them when they come up, you're already dead. So why is keeping a count useful for this? If you know spawn times, and you watch the death list, you can very accurately predict when snipers or spies will be returning, which allows you to get TONS of extra points because you know when you don't have to worry about them just as much as you know when you do so you can focus on their medics, demomen, etc. Second, this will help you estimate how much damage you will do when sniping someone, and know when you run or when to stay and brave it out at close range.


SNIPER DOT

your sniper dot is a very very important aspect of sniping. The basics of the dot is keep it hidden, keep it on a section where people won't see it so they won't know you're about to get them, however. This is simply untrue. If you are new to sniping, definately do this. Since you don't know wtf you're doing and you will learn as time goes on what your sniper dot causes. However, for the more experienced players, your sniper dot can be a wonderful form of crowd control. I often use my dot for two things, Attracted targets at me, for instance if I'm in the canyon on warpath I will shine my dot on the opposite wall where it is easy to see to encourage demomen, sniper, and soldiers to jump into the canyon and attack me. I can almost always kill them and stay healthy in the process while also defending a vital point for the team. Second, I use my dot to repel people (I know what, Kinda weird it attracts and repels people) However, When I'm sniping a point and things are getting a little too heavy, I'll shine my dot at snipers and medics to discourage them from being too brave, there is definate skill to this because most times you will not be able to just kill them outright if you're using your dot for this, so you have to always be able to dance. beyond this, I can't really give any major advice about the dot, find your own style and make it work for you. OH, one last thing for all you snipers. WHEN YOU ARE MOVING AROUND CORNERS IN AN ATTEMPT TO QUICKLY COUNTER SNIPER SOMEONE, DO NOT SHOW YOUR DOT ON THE CORNER. The dot will bend around and I will be able to very accurately predict when you're coming around the corner based on the dot being there. Always shine your dot somewhere else when you are moving, either hide it or shine it well beyond your intended target. Learning that fact did wonders for my counter sniping game.

Sniper Damage


Uncharged your shot will do 34-66 damage when not a headshot, and fully charged you do 110-195 damage when not a head shot, which is multiplied by 3 when you get a headshot, with some absolutes tied in there, like a fully charged headshot always does 450 as a headshot, when it's not 100%, the math varies quite a bit.

That is all I have for now, I'll probably edit this when I'm not quite as hung over and not quite as tired, anyone with advice or comments, feel free to respond. Maybe I'll leanr something
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Re: Grapedrink's sniper guide

Post by booner » Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:33 pm

Have my children?

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Re: Grapedrink's sniper guide

Post by Yahoo!! » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:14 pm

I absolutely agree about the point with the map.

I do my best sniping on maps that I know inside and out. Very rarely you will see me be sniper on new maps because I still don't know them. Also, new maps may not be sniper friendly, as they lack long corridors, large open areas or watchtowers.

One of the key things that Grapedrink touched upon is being able to figure out enemy routes. Projecting the path of an enemy and lining up the shot with his path is how I get many people.

The other is that yes, being snuck up on is your one true threat. You will die very quickly.

I also agree that body shots are also good. I have gotten many bodyshots as well.

I partially disagree with sniper dot. Sometimes I will hide it to get catch someone unaware. It all depends on the situation and the distance me and the target.

Obviously we have our differences on the kukri. I think the kukri is one of my favorite weapons.

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Re: Grapedrink's sniper guide

Post by Nick Mame » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:18 pm

Most of the classes that are your main enemies will be soldiers and demomen, which I think are notably bad at close range since any damage they do to you, they do to themselves, so get in close, stay in close and you can smg them down.
A soldier won't care if they get hit point blank with a rocket. The decent ones rocket jump all the time - self damage is no large issue. Even if they are in the red - shotgun. You never see it used, but when a proper soldier comes to the field, hitscan pain.

Also: demomen can bottle. You either are close enough for them to bottle or the right range for a little-aim-required grenade. Unfortunately, most demomen don't use either of those either...


I like the SMG for finishing off people after getting a headshot I know should have killed them (but didn't, darnit) or when a pyro is closing in. Your best bet in other close-range situations is to hope you have proper aim and get a near point-blank headshot. Otherwise, switch to melee and pray for a lucky crit before you die.
If you know spawn times, and you watch the death list, you can very accurately predict when snipers or spies will be returning, which allows you to get TONS of extra points because you know when you don't have to worry about them just as much as you know when you do so you can focus on their medics, demomen, etc.
This needs to be carved into a gold tablet somewhere. Prediction of both seen and unseen enemies is a huge skill in TF2 which can cause you to dominate the world. I have fairly bad aim, I am not capable of multitasking at all (my scout is pitiful), but I know where you are going before you even get there yourself. Thusly, you die.


RE: Sniper Dot
It's a nice method to keep heavies in check (at least the heavies good enough to be a threat), but remember that it reveals your position as well. On some maps where there are a large number of flanking positions, an opposing sniper can easily see your dot, predict your location, and position himself for a flawless headshot. If you show your dot, be prepared for being the center of everyone's attention.



If I have time and interest later, I might revisit with my own sniper views.
Last edited by Nick Mame on Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Grapedrink's sniper guide

Post by Grapedrink » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:18 pm

yeah, I would use the melee weapons if I could honestly, I'm just unable to, I have pretty low frames when I get right up on someone so if you ever melee fight with me, you'll see that I just completely miss often, and spies always seem to be able to circle around me when it looks like on my screen I'm looking right at 'em
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Re: Grapedrink's sniper guide

Post by chaffe[seagreens] » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:13 pm

A point that I make sure I use is to move around as a sniper....especially if you have killed a few people...after each kill it lets the person know where you were when u killed them... you have to mix it up. find strange angles and shoot them in the face.

there is no reason to sit back and wait with the sniper, after practice, try pushing foreward with the sniper....They way I normally play the sniper is at the front lines.. the 1 shot kill will prove to be very helpful for your team. and cand really frustrate you ememys.

another good tactic I like to use is to work with a local sentry gun... Move foreward a bit and draw your enemy towards you. when they get too close move back and let the sentry do its job...then shoot them in the face..

also, try to take out sentrys, tele's etc... only a few shots and there gone...
I don't tend to hide my Red dot. as Grape stated, it will both attract and make people go other ways... I would rather have them attack so I can shoot them in the face..
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Re: Grapedrink's sniper guide

Post by Nick Mame » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:49 pm

Something that needs to be done more often:

Snipers are the greatest safe sentry removal method when your team doesn't have an uber charged. You get a combination of either two snipers or a sniper and a soldier:

a) two snipers: I don't know the exact charge each sniper needs, since I rarely meet other snipers on the front, but 100% each is a safe bet. Charge behind a corner or outside of the sentry's LoS and then peek out together for one quick shot. Communicate to know who's to fire first and who's to listen for the shot and fire immediately after. Two charged shots on a level three sentry will destroy it.

b) sniper + soldier (way easier): this method is nice because it doesn't require planning, soldiers are always spamming rockets at sentries! Charge yourself to 100% and then fire at the sentry the instant the rocket hits. A 100% charged shot + a single rocket will destroy a level three sentry. It's absurdly easy to pull off: soldier fires around a corner, you sidestep out for a millisecond, sentry down. Who needs ubers?

It's a shame few snipers consider the offensive potential of the class. Snipers excel at killing engineers, destroying sentries, knocking out heavies hiding behind corners... all you need is a bit of courage and a knack for firing point-blank the instant you round a corner at the heavy prepared to tear you to shreds!
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Re: Grapedrink's sniper guide

Post by Grapedrink » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:13 pm

two snipers with 89% charge each, or 100% charge and 75% charge will take down a sentry if they hit it at the same time, I've done this several times in some tournament games with my eye gaming clan
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Re: Grapedrink's sniper guide

Post by LJ » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:22 pm

It also helps if you have a 12 ping

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Post by Cpt. Winky » Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:50 pm

on warpath, if you are on the bottom of teh ridge, always aim above the edge of the level on the opposite side. It is really easy to aim down and kill someone on the boxes, or aim just a little up and kill N@VX or Deathbringer trying to solly\demo jump respectively.

<--------- #1 machete kills wooooooo!
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Post by Shifty » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:38 pm

[quote="Cpt. Winky";p="118939"]<--------- #1 machete kills wooooooo![/quote]

You're just lucky that I haven't kept up with my kukri killings otherwise I'm going to strip you of that title ;)


Thats all awesome advice Grape coming from an excellent sniper, new snipers should definitely heed your advice. Your point on the enemy head count is something I always do, after a while it just becomes natural so that you take down a sniper you almost subconsciously count the seconds before you have to start worrying about them again.

A few things I would stress, other than knowing how long to charge your shot before letting it go (depending on the target), is knowing your angles and distances. Good snipers will setup camp in spots on the map where they are safe from backstabs are surprise attacks from rockets or grenades. Snipers are used best (unless you're really good) when they are out of range from other attacks.

Knowing each map so that you not only know you're safe from other snipers shots, but also so that you can just use reaction time to click and kill targets.

For example, if you've taken high ground and the enemy is coming at your from one corner that means you have to move your mouse (really fast, as TF2 is a fast game) on a diagonal downwards. Making headshots like that is very difficult. Instead, being on the same level, or have enemies come straight towards you (or going horizontally through your scope) makes it much easier to just click when they pass through your crosshair.
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Post by Cpt. Winky » Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:08 pm

[quote="Shifty";p="119016"][quote="Cpt. Winky";p="118939"]<--------- #1 machete kills wooooooo![/quote]

You're just lucky that I haven't kept up with my kukri killings otherwise I'm going to strip you of that title ;) [/quote]

Lol, I was wondering why you spent the whole round just chopping. I round a corner and see you try to kill a pyro by chopping. I think I'm #2 on smg kills and sniper kills, but dag nabbit I will stay #1 in kukri kills!!
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Post by mr_s » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:05 pm

[quote="LJ";p="118924"]
It also helps if you have a 12 ping
[/quote]

rofl.

try 197

ALSO i cant aim properly so i'll stick with demo spam :D

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Post by Shifty » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:39 am

[quote="Cpt. Winky";p="119049"]Lol, I was wondering why you spent the whole round just chopping. I round a corner and see you try to kill a pyro by chopping. I think I'm #2 on smg kills and sniper kills, but dag nabbit I will stay #1 in kukri kills!![/quote]

I play every game like that, I get bored of sniping so I try to go on a melee rampage. On Warpath it causes havoc but never really works. Today I got ubered and got one kukri kill though. :D

PS: Look who's number 1 now.
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