Same as it ever was.

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Rico[CotC]
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Same as it ever was.

Post by Rico[CotC] » Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:44 pm

This game keeps bringing me back.

Dog, thanks again for the great game. I might go and play other stuff, but I always come back to Left4DOD. Played some last night for the first time in months. Then I suddenly wished one of the old hands was there to play zombie. Pravda, for sure!

Oh, and hey - when do I get my name on a zombie, huh? :)
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Re: Same as it ever was.

Post by Rico[CotC] » Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:14 pm

BTW, I *promise* I will only play one round as a zombie. Just one. And I'll try and play a round where it's a one-man Allied cap, so at least there's a chance of the Allies winning the round. Human zombie + 2+ men to cap? Too hard to not ticket out. :(
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Re: Same as it ever was.

Post by Rico[CotC] » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:13 pm

Speaking of tickets - Dog, if you are reading this, my suggestion is this: if there is a human playing zombie, the tickets DO NOT increment. IOW, a human player may not win the game by playing defense.

A suggestion.
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Rred
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Re: Same as it ever was.

Post by Rred » Mon Sep 15, 2014 12:09 am

Hello Rico!

I will to add on the the ticket thing as I do have quite a opinion about it.

Tickets are incompatible with human zombies. They can stall a game by spawning on a undefended flags so we don't win but run out of tickets. Worst case is when someone figures out that you can spawn on any flag as a emo and explode like in this video.

Plus the game is so challenging now that having a human zombie out is uncommon as new players don't stick around very long by loosing consistently. Its was really difficult with the bots alone which worked for what it was made for the no longer hosted co-op mode but this is VS mode bots have to be easier to make room for human zombies. Yes we will easily win when no human zombie plays but that's the point that how you build up enough players so you can play with multiple human zombies.

Also being infected the majority of the time by gas is irritating especially if we have 2 gas man quickly unloading gas which can infect a very wide area and through walls. Mix in TICKETS, human zombie, super 60% damage high health sprinting emo being spawned by gray dude and 3 man caps and its game-over!!!

The "you have been infected" can literally spam the side my screen 3 or even 4+ times. Being infected now is how you play the majority to the time. :(

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Re: Same as it ever was.

Post by Rico[CotC] » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:58 am

I guess I don't mind a challenge. But if I were just starting out, I might not like it being this much of a challenge.

I never play Emo or UNG when I'm playing the zombie side, and I rarely camp. I try and get out there in the mix with the Allies, and see if I can't get a couple of good whacks in, LOL.

But the ticket system makes life tough when it's a three-man cap, even if there are no human zombies.

It's too bad Dog has moved on to other stuff - it would be cool to tweek the game a little and leave it in a sort of "final revision". I like the map rotation it's on now. It might be cool to have Driz in there - for human zombies, that one is a riot.

I have noticed something - there are more players playing lately. Which is nice.
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pravda
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Re: Same as it ever was.

Post by pravda » Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:41 am

Hi Zombie Rico and fellow left4dod'rs,

Agree with the idea of no tickets when you have human zombie(s) ... and the 3 man flags are tough - especially when you only have a few players ...

Like Rico said, i think it is more fun playing human zombie against allies when they have easier caps - 1 or 2 person cap max ... otherwise it can be too hard and with them having tickets as well ...

I notice new players often ask why they can't go zombie, but if you are short on players or there already is a human zombie they can't. If the allied caps were shorter/fast 1 or 2 person only all the time when there is human zombie(s), could you maybe allow human zombie(s) more often ... maybe even with only 5 or even 4 allied players?

Having more opportunities to play as a human zombie would be very cool ...

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As far as the game being too challenging now, I think Rred (did you ever punch kalt in the face?) is right about new players finding it too hard and leaving ... I've heard players frustrated (incl. myself) that they can't even reload in time ... as the zombies now move so much faster than they used to...

As a regular player since 2012, the gameplay was much, much fairer and a lot better balanced back just after the hell spawn was introduced at the end of January 2013 - before the forced infections-deaths, one hit kills and vastly reduced health drops.

Since then there have been many changes which have made life a lot harder for the allies/players:

- forced infections-deaths and very few health pack/kit drops from zombies now to even have a chance to be able to cure the forced infections-deaths


(why have the zombies dropping even less health packs as players are forcibly infected-death and the rest of the gameplay gets harder and harder?)
(why do the zombies always take health packs/kits and grey dude ink off the ground and even as its dropping/falling from the zombie in front? - most of the time we, and certainly myself as an individual player, can't get to it even when you are right up in their face)

- way faster moving/shuffling/leaping/jumping zombies

- multiple gas man, anarchists, infected ones

- grey dude now repeatedly spawns emo (instead of wraith)/extra zombie and spawns them alot more accurately and closer to a player along with more one hit kills so a player often has literally no time to even react

(denying a player any chance/opportunity to counter it)

- annie's skull bomb exploding way sooner, way more often and now with almost 'pinpoint' accuracy

- zombies now even make less or often no noise when they are close to a player (or maybe they are just so fast now we don't have time to hear them before they are on us?)

- grey dude ink now no longer 'pauses' infection while we are invisible (this is a more recent change - why?)

- shield time has been deliberately reduced - doesn't last as long now even as the zombies keep getting more disproportionately difficult (a more recent change since original post - why?)

- tickets


I noticed the getting infected thing was added not long after the issue came up about players camping/waiting outside a flag to rack up easy 'flag saves' which unfortunately get counted during the game as an objective the same as a full flag capture instead of as its own separate 'flag saves' stat.

Gas man infection (when he's playing) in particular means players can't camp (often out of zombies reach) so easily because now they have to somehow find a health pack in time to cure their infection or die ... It doesn't stop them from 'flag save' camping or camping in general but it does make it harder for them to stay in the same place uninterrupted for so long ...

*** But for players who do move around/cap or are waiting for other players to help them cap a flag, it is particularly frustrating and unfair forcibly getting infected one way or another and then nowhere near enough health pack drops from zombies to even have a chance to cure yourself or someone else in time before you/they die from the forced infection. ***

It would be fairer for the players/allies to be given a chance to avoid being infected rather than having it forced on them particularly like the gas man does. His gas infection is forced on the player and the player can use no ability to avoid it.

Why can't the gas man anti-gas pill at least be a cure for the gas man's infection? That would be a somewhat fairer balance to his forced gas infection ...


Zombies incl. hell spawn, wraith, grey dude regularly don't drop anything, or other zombies take the 'health kit/ink' drops before players even have a chance to get to them, or they are often stuck to ground (source engine bug/glitch?) and you can't even pick them up.


Strangely it now seems even more rewarding, or just easier, for a player to die rather than trying to survive and cure an infection as dying allows a player to re-spawn a few seconds later with no infection and full health, full ammo and menu access to shields/parachutes etc ...

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As a bonus, maybe when we capture a flag we also get cured or get a health pack/kit at least?

Could the infection instead only last for a certain amount of time and then stop by itself if we survive long enough - like it used to? Or at least lower the rate the infection keeps reducing our health so we have a more reasonable amount of time to somehow find a health pack/kit to cure the forced infection?

Could the infected one (and gas man) randomly have no effect on the player - in other words, why does the infected one always have to infect a player when he stabs you?

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Also agree with the following:

* Creeper mentioned in another post: While i like the concept of the Hell Spawn i think the flame effect lasts a tad too long.

* Aardvark mentioned in another post: I would like to see the Gas Man drop health or have anti-gas be an antidote for his gas attack. I haven't seen the anti-gas be that useful. The infected one should have camo abilities like the Predators from Aliens. Only make it less obvious so the Infected doesn't become everyone's free kill zombie. Maybe make it a permanent thing for him.

my reply was: I've thought the same thing about the gas man's anti-gas being like a health pack/kit instead and it was handy when you used to be able to see the infected one's outline with your torch.

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The mod at least must/should have lots and lots of health pack/kit drops from zombies (with a mix of ones that zombies can't pick up but we can) to fairly balance out the forced infection-deaths and way harder/faster gameplay ... this would at least help to give a player a fairer chance at surviving (like it used to be) and curing themselves or someone else ...

ps. also like Rico said - thanks for the still awesome mod (albeit alot more unfair (unnecessarily and deliberately meaner?) than it was a few years ago) ... and thanks for adding santos and anvil back in the mix and tiger_z was fun to play ...

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