Left4DoD: Survival Mode

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Left4DoD: Survival Mode

Post by Dog » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:00 pm

PROPOSAL
To create a version of Left4DoD to a better format that improves gameplay.

DESIGN IDEAS
1. When a player dies, they join the Zombie side (standard Zombie mod)

2. The first time they join the Zombies, they begin as a standard Zombie. For each human they kill, they get points, that unlock other types of Zombie
e.g.
1000 pts - unlock The Infected One
2000 pts - unlock The Wraith
3000 pts - unlock The Witch
4000 pts - unlock The Emo
5000 pts - unlock The Grey Dude
6000 pts - unlock The Gas Man
8000 pts - unlock The Anarchist
12000 pts - unlock The Hellspawn
16000 pts - unlock The Skeleton
25000 pts - unlock the UNG

Thinking of about 10 pts for each human killed.
Unlike normal L4DoD, there would be no limits to the number of specials, once unlocked.

3. Drops will still be available, including the joys of Airstrikes etc

4. The last player will be visible to all Zombies

5. Suicide will be turned off - thus stopping people immediately joining Zombies at round start

6. Zombies will have much lower health

7. Bots will still play

8. To win, Allies will have to survive for 25 minutes. Then the map would change.

9. To win, Zombies have to kill all Allies

10. Flags will be turned off, but I'm wondering if we should keep a flag near Zombie spawn to cap to give the game a twist and to stop people camping

11. No limits on snipers, MGs

12. Ammo would be limited to what they get from drops and each other

DISCUSSION
Fire your thoughts and suggestions here.
Try not to stray too far away from the basic Left4DoD model!
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v.o.c
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Re: Left4DoD: Survival Mode

Post by v.o.c » Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:04 pm

sounds good, but could we not maybe get some of our wonderful mappers to maybe rag a couple of maps to reduce camping spots. also have you had a think about the format for a fun night i asked you about?
Hey you Would'nt you like to be a vicious orange carrot too?
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Re: Left4DoD: Survival Mode

Post by M's » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:29 pm

How about enabling the last remaining human to be able to see the zombie's. Kinda like what the snipers scoped vision is like.

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Re: Left4DoD: Survival Mode

Post by Rred » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:45 pm

Ive played plenty of mods where when human dies they becomes zombie. The results are with the zombies winning just due to the unbalanced teams. It makes a great struggle for half the game but the last player is probably going to get nerfed. The current scheme tries to focus on balance this ends up to be the opposite. To be positive though to run this mode on one sever and keep the good old capture the flag mode on another will bring a different flavor choice in l4dod gameplay.
I believe some of the zombie mods that I used to play that are still online are counterstrike & gmod based. For the gmod based the only way to win involves prop-blocking rooms. The oldest one I used to play it ran on Medal of Honor Allied Assault. Most of them had the same thing in common standard zombie with usual zombie attack and switching teams upon death with zombies usually wining most of the time. I can't imagine trying to deal with the custom zombies on L4dod when users eventually get enough points. I can imagine a bunch of infected coming out of nowhere, a million wraths sucking and a witch shoveling me from the inside out. Those are just the first unlocks I shiver the thought of the others.

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Re: Left4DoD: Survival Mode

Post by Rico[CotC] » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:01 pm

Rred wrote:Ive played plenty of mods where when human dies they becomes zombie. The results are with the zombies winning just due to the unbalanced teams. It makes a great struggle for half the game but the last player is probably going to get nerfed. The current scheme tries to focus on balance this ends up to be the opposite. To be positive though to run this mode on one sever and keep the good old capture the flag mode on another will bring a different flavor choice in l4dod gameplay.
I believe some of the zombie mods that I used to play that are still online are counterstrike & gmod based. For the gmod based the only way to win involves prop-blocking rooms. The oldest one I used to play it ran on Medal of Honor Allied Assault. Most of them had the same thing in common standard zombie with usual zombie attack and switching teams upon death with zombies usually wining most of the time. I can't imagine trying to deal with the custom zombies on L4dod when users eventually get enough points. I can imagine a bunch of infected coming out of nowhere, a million wraths sucking and a witch shoveling me from the inside out. Those are just the first unlocks I shiver the thought of the others.
I'm thinking that in order to balance this out, the Allied players remaining get more health. Well, they don't get more automatically - they have to earn it by killing zombies and getting health drops. The last player should be tough as hell to kill, and require that the zombies actually act as a team to get it done. That last Allied player should be as tough as an UNG. This rewards the allied players for staying alive. It also doesn't allow the zombies to just rack up the wins. It would suck to be the last Allied player against ten human zombies, but if that one Allied player was super tough, then the Allies might win every now and then. 25 minutes is a LONG time to hold out against zombies that can jump, run and see through walls.
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Re: Left4DoD: Survival Mode

Post by Rred » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:21 pm

Well I still think it will be difficult to win and adding health and making rounds short well just don't sound that appealing. Either user kills a lot and gets ton of health or he gets obliterated. Using slower weapons will make getting health by kill hard and the rocket class totally pointless. While the mg will dominate by destroying a lot and devouring health packs. Even if powerfull as UNG it only take like 3-4 players to dispatch him quickly.

I just don't like how narrow the human classes it will be used to win. No one going to win if they are m1, sniper,etc. The only way to win will be to kill a lot and that is it. Pure offense no defense.
We are playing on a 32 player sever "1-3 vs 29-31" games don't exist for a reason. It's the very reason why we have a human zombie limit now. Once the game drops below 5-4 players game over dude. It is the reason why I have so much negative feeling on this type of game-play. I wish players played the counterstrike,gmod severs that use this type of game-play before deciding if this is a good idea because I don't believe many people that suggested this have played it. If they played on them for a few rounds they probably say screw this and quit. Its fun for a few rounds but since results are the same it gets old fast.

I would much rather take down a horde of Zombies with a gun than be one hunting a few humans. Either teams are balanced or they will dominate one or the other it is a very basic rule for most FPS games.

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Re: Left4DoD: Survival Mode

Post by Dog » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:04 am

One way around the old Zombie-mod way is to give Allies an objective, besides sitting it out.

They could also have the choice of making it to a specified point on a map, e.g. the house near Axis spawn on Donner or the fountain on Anzio...that kind of thing, once human numbers reached, say three.
It would be visible to all Allied players as a marker on screen that they had to get to, to win.

It would also be good to have while server numbers were low.

It would also mean human Zombies would have to keep a watch on the objective point (which could also change from map to map, visible only to Allies!)

I would make sure the Zs dropped tons of health packs and that zombie health was a lot less.

Rred is correct though. The special infected on Left4DoD are super powerful. So we'd have to make sure there was only 1 of each type on the team. Players coming late into the team would be stuck with being a regular zombie if all the specials were used up.

I would also turn off the ability of Zombies to see through walls until the last three.
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Re: Left4DoD: Survival Mode

Post by Rred » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:15 am

Day of defeat has two modes capture the flag and detonation. You modded Capture the flag so why not detonation.

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Re: Left4DoD: Survival Mode

Post by Dog » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:21 am

Detonation doesn't play nice.
It would have to be done at map level not code.
And then you don't have the option of moving the objective around.
If there was to be an objective, having a variable one that keeps the Axis on their toes is a good idea.

BTW, the round would only end for Allies if all the team were within the objective area, not just one.
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Re: Left4DoD: Survival Mode

Post by Rico[CotC] » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:28 am

I didn't like it last time because the Allied team members left didn't get much of anything for "surviving". Drops like shield and health would make life easier for the Allied team. That and increased health limits. Before Dog fixed the health bug, I once had 987 health points. I could get into a slug-fest with an UNG and win. But if the UNG had had a smart Grey Dude or Witch to help him out, I would not have gotten far, even on 987 health. :)
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Re: Left4DoD: Survival Mode

Post by Rred » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:53 am

OK so detonation be rather too difficult.
Also turning off the ability of Zombies to see through walls wont do much since it wont take long for them to find a horde of human players making racket on bots while defending a objective.
Dog wrote: I would make sure the Zs dropped tons of health packs and that zombie health was a lot less.
I would also turn off the ability of Zombies to see through walls until the last three.
I simply don't like the idea of switching teams on death. If there are a few human players alive weaker zombies that drop more health may keep them alive to win but now the issue is that there will not be a "few" human players because the zombies are nerfed form the start and no one will die.
To fix any issues with a few players trying to win at the end of the game will break it form the start. Balancing the teams like it is now I see as the only solution. Balancing with health packs and less health if it somehow works will change who win depending on the number of human players.

Also what stops a user form intentionally getting killed for the purpose to play a zombie since its the only way to play as one. What stops them from doing the Vice Versa and being a crapy zombie player to let humans win.

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Re: Left4DoD: Survival Mode

Post by Dog » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:19 pm

Scratch that.
Zombie mods are already out there.

I'm already thinking of just Zombies vs Marines....
Pondering what would have to change to make it happen.
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