Ranking and fair play... A suggestion...

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Rico[CotC]
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Re: Ranking and fair play... A suggestion...

Post by Rico[CotC] » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:08 pm

Ooo, I *like* the idea of an ice grenade for the Garand. I like the rifle. I'd use it MUCH more if I could freeze zombies and then go knife them! I'd like it to be a contact grenade, but shooting it around corners might also be fun. I'd have to try it both ways. Invisible zombies wouldn't be affected, and the Skeleton would also not be affected by the freeze. But here's a kicker for Dog:

Zombies on fire get PUT OUT by the ice grenade! And frozen zombies are made mobile by the Molotov! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[/evil programmer laugh]
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Re: Ranking and fair play... A suggestion...

Post by Flash » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:20 pm

Thread interruption in progress:

:arrow: Left4DoD players, make sure you sign-up for the 2012 Villympics! These teams will need your unique skills to bring home the honor, glory and prizes!

We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion...

Aardvark Ratnick
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Re: Ranking and fair play... A suggestion...

Post by Aardvark Ratnick » Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:41 pm

Ranking means quite a bit to me. But only in the sense that I can point to it and brag a little to my wife. The things that bug me, and these are quite irrational nit picks, is players who play for long period of times (5,6,12 hours at a time) and players playing on almost empty servers making no attempt to cap. It just doesn't seem to be in the spirit of fair play for the ranking system. But I know that I can do exactly the same things if I wanted. So I try to stifle my irrational feelings towards those players. I have pretty much given up on advancing in rank. I can do it if I play every night but that leaves no room for any other game or activity that I might want to do. Plus when real life interferes with game life and your rank plummets you feel cheated in a sense.

Campers don't bug me so much. I am pretty sure that they are swearing at me under their breath when I cap out the map that they were do nothing on. I ruined their "fun". But to me the objective is to first and foremost cap flags killing any zombies that may prevent you from doing that. It doesn't matter to me if the server is full or empty or in between. I am always going to try to capture the flags, all of them.

Some ideas about scoring:

When player count is below 4 all zombie deaths are worth 1 point regardless of head shot or not. Flag caps are 10 and no points for defense. When player count is 2 or below all scoring is turned off. When player count is above 5 but say less the 8 zombies are worth the usual 2 points, no bonus for head shots, and flags are their usual 30. When player count is above 8 then scoring is as it is now. When the flag cap requirement is at 3 and player count is above 8 then all caps should be 40 points and defense 10. This may be unfair to zombies since I have never seen them have a 3 man flag cap requirement.

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Re: Ranking and fair play... A suggestion...

Post by the creeper » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:55 pm

I think the points should be left as is. Even the campers have to work for it. People shouldn't be penalized for how many are in the server. I am up early in the mornings and i know a few people that that is the only time for them to be able to play. Servers are almost empty. Should they be penalized for it? Everybody has the same opportunity as the next person when it comes to rank. You gotta work for it if you want it. I don't understand why everyone wants to sit back and bitch about everything. Play the game. Have fun. That's what it's there for. No offense to you Aardvark. I like you and have played with you many times, but there are people that get upset if they aren't in the top 5 and then think it's unfair because those players have got all the points. When those players have worked hard for it.
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Re: Ranking and fair play... A suggestion...

Post by Aardvark Ratnick » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:15 pm

creeper I understand what you are saying. I do sometime feel that playing on a near empty server shouldn't be as rewarding as playing on a full server in terms of points. But then I find myself in that exact situation and at that time I don't want to be penalized. Kind of a double standard there. I try to catch myself at that and fix my attitude. I was just trying to come up with an idea to address this perceived, not actual, imbalance. As it stands now everyone has equal opportunity to play. I do think the rewards ought to be greater for the more difficult tasks such as a 3 man flag cap that takes nearly a minute to cap. Or perhaps points for cap outs on really difficult maps. I thought the original point system was fun. The zombies gained and lost points just like human players. But I think that would strain the servers because the point calculations per second would increase dramatically just based on the sheer numbers of zombies.

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Re: Ranking and fair play... A suggestion...

Post by the creeper » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:04 pm

True, and i agree with you. I hate the three man cap, but it makes sense. Maybe not necessarily point increase but money?
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Re: Ranking and fair play... A suggestion...

Post by Rico[CotC] » Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:55 pm

I think that we are rewarded for not playing as much, and playing on full servers. Especially when there is a human-powered zombie. 25 points for a guy who ranks higher than you? Oh, heck yeah! I love it.

I used to care a lot about rankings. And then, one day, I realized that the rankings are based almost entirely on play time, and not on skill or teamwork. Killing AI zombies on an empty server? Pfffft. I'd rather have no rank and play on a full server with three human-powered zombies than mindlessly head-shot zombies on an empty server. Oh, and teaching the guys that laugh when they kill me what "funny" actually means. That's the most fun of all. :)

The kills and the rank and the money don't mean anything when you got a group of guys on who are veterans and cover one another, act as a team, and absolutely own the maps even on 3-man cap levels. You and I have done that on more than one occasion, Master Ratnick. Get Moonshine, Sarge and Carrot on with us, and only Kalt is a challenge.
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Re: Ranking and fair play... A suggestion...

Post by v.o.c » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:30 am

Rico[CotC] wrote:I think that we are rewarded for not playing as much, and playing on full servers. Especially when there is a human-powered zombie. 25 points for a guy who ranks higher than you? Oh, heck yeah! I love it.

I used to care a lot about rankings. And then, one day, I realized that the rankings are based almost entirely on play time, and not on skill or teamwork. Killing AI zombies on an empty server? Pfffft. I'd rather have no rank and play on a full server with three human-powered zombies than mindlessly head-shot zombies on an empty server. Oh, and teaching the guys that laugh when they kill me what "funny" actually means. That's the most fun of all. :)

The kills and the rank and the money don't mean anything when you got a group of guys on who are veterans and cover one another, act as a team, and absolutely own the maps even on 3-man cap levels. You and I have done that on more than one occasion, Master Ratnick. Get Moonshine, Sarge and Carrot on with us, and only Kalt is a challenge.
with the right team of players around you, even Kalt can be won 2 or 3 times, with relative ease. Kalt becomes hard with the 3 man caps no matter how good your team.
Hey you Would'nt you like to be a vicious orange carrot too?
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Re: Ranking and fair play... A suggestion...

Post by <eVa> + Sarge + » Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:58 am

I think Kalt should be banned from the server. Heck, even the server doesn't like Kalt. :P

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Re: Ranking and fair play... A suggestion...

Post by Rico[CotC] » Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:21 pm

<eVa> + Sarge + wrote:I think Kalt should be banned from the server. Heck, even the server doesn't like Kalt. :P
LOL, true.
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Re: Ranking and fair play... A suggestion...

Post by Aardvark Ratnick » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:30 am

Rico I have recently came to the same conclusion. I have stopped caring about the rank even enough to brag about it to my wife. Because you are right. Rank is all based on play time. I try to be a good team player, give ammo when requested, back people up when I can, and give health when I can. However it so much more difficult when it is unknown players who are acting like idiots. I can't tell you how many times I have caught myself saying "Ahhh Rico is coming on. Now we are going to get somewhere." And it is not just you Rico there are some others that I do that with also. It is now becoming enough for me to be recognized by others as a person they like playing L4DOD with. I will take the recognition of my fellow players in place of rank. I used to think that I was a nobody and that I had to achieve high ranking to be recognized as a somebody. No longer.

Rico hope you won't think bad of me for this but I actually have goaded several players into laughing at you as they kill you knowing that you will hunt them down. Usually in the form of "You really don't want to laugh at him." Especially players who have been owning me the whole game. I don't enjoy the hunt like you and others. For me it slows the game down too much.

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Re: Ranking and fair play... A suggestion...

Post by Rico[CotC] » Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:03 pm

Aardvark Ratnick wrote: Rico hope you won't think bad of me for this but I actually have goaded several players into laughing at you as they kill you knowing that you will hunt them down. Usually in the form of "You really don't want to laugh at him." Especially players who have been owning me the whole game. I don't enjoy the hunt like you and others. For me it slows the game down too much.
For me, the hunting is in context of team-play. If I tie up the other team's "best player", then he can't disrupt our guys as much. If he's running away, he can't interfere with flag caps. Or kill advancing players. If, at the same time, I can drop off ammo, or Molotov near a zombie pathway, all the better.

Get the other guy concentrated on staying alive, rather than winning the map. Then the Allies win. Or, as a zombie, concentrate on keeping the Allies from keeping their captures, and stay the heck away from them while you're doing it. Winning the map is *the* only goal.

I'm happy to capture and kill zombies in the context of capturing. But when a human zombie thinks that they've accomplished something and wants to brag? I'll be happy to change my map-winning tactics. :twisted:
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Re: Ranking and fair play... A suggestion...

Post by Maurice Moss » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:23 pm

I don't care too much about ranking, but I do love the good times I've had with you guys over the last couple of years. I have logged almost 500 hours on L4DOD alone!

anyways It is a crazy fun game without the ability to go zombie, but add that in and it becomes a fun smack talking allie-trolling fun fest. It really gets my adrenaline going and there is usually one or two players (Aardvark Ratnick & Rico) that i stalk and try and get one up on.
god, save me from your followers.

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Re: Ranking and fair play... A suggestion...

Post by Tseeneth » Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:49 am

Hello everyone..

It's been a while I started the discussion about the way a few players are using the MG...
I would like to come back to this point as things aren't yet any better...
The fact I live in Belgium and mostely awake at hours most american people are sleeping, I have to face difficulties trying to play fair when the always few same ones take advantage of relative empty servers to camp with the MG and kill Zombies at high amounts...
You probably know the reason they do that...

I still believe this is not not fair for all others who run, fight and really move on maps...
It blocks the game as they don't care about flags and help...
But they make 500-600 points each games this way...
To me their total points and ranks doesn't make sense at all...

I remember I suggested to reduce points concerning camping cap flags...
But I have another solution to propose, which is to block the use of the MG under a certain amount of players (maybe 4 or 5) logged in...
That could help force them to active play instead of lay down and make easy points...
Off course they will move to a higher window and wait the zombie there... That's another of their tricks.... But the amount of fire power is substantially not the same as with an MG...

Creeper once said we should be able to play as Zombie at any moment and kill those campers...
But, it is still impossible to do that as the message is "The Zombie team is already full"...

:dance:
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Re: Ranking and fair play... A suggestion...

Post by Aardvark Ratnick » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:39 pm

Simple solutions are often the best. Cap the map out as often as you can. This bring the specials into play such as the Witch who hunts campers. Gas Man, Anarchist and the Wraith all have weapons cable of reaching campers out of normal zombie reach. The more often you do this the more often they die and the more often they will disconnect. Dog may need to tweak the damage and seeking code a little to get these campers but the mechanics are already there.

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