A plea for some stats adjustments

[EzCrash]

Some people play for fun, some for stats and some for both. I fall in to the "both" category. Over the past few days I have lost several hundred points while maintaining about a 2 - 1 K/D ratio, capping / defending Capture Points and destroying engy structures.

I beg that before the stats reset on the 28th we can look in to some adjustments that might better reflect how the players in the community are playing.

Decrease kill reward cap from 25 pts: This is my biggest point of frustration as well as many I am sure who are in the top 100 or so. It is so frustrating to be killed by someone and lose 25 points just because that player just got over the 150 kill mark. I was playing last night and had 4 players take huge chunks of points from me ( 16, 18, 22 and 25 points per kill ). I don't understand the point of rewarding a player 25 points for killing one of the top players. I ask that we are given a flat 5 points per kill ( -5 for death ). Or at least a compromise .... lower the max reward from 25 pts. down to something around 10 - 15.

Increase points for destruction: 1 point per destruction seems way too low. Especially taking down a tier 3 sentry! I propose 5 points per destruction or at least 3 points. What would even be better is to reward based on what is destroyed. In that case ... 2 points for destroyed teleporter, 3 points for a dispenser and 5 points for a sentry.

Add points for capturing a Capture Point: Not sure if this is possible. I see on my stats page that we get 10 points for capturing the "flag" but I see nothing for capturing a Capture Point. If this is possible, I propose 10 points for capturing a C.P.

Increase points blocked capture: At this time we get 5 points for this. I propose 10 points for it as it is a vital part of game play. I can't tell you how many times I have rushed in to stand on the point with several enemies on the point, knowing full well that I will die for it, but trying to buy a few extra seconds for back up to arrive.

Increase assist points: I propose a bump from 2 points to 3 points for an assist. This would most benefit Medics who already play a selfless class and they are my heroes !

Bonus points for melee kill: I am not sure if this is possible but along with the regular points one gets for killing another player, is it possible to reward bonus points for a melee kill ? If so I think it would be cool for a bonus of 3 points for a melee kill ( excluding the spy melee kill ).

Lower the penalty for dropping the flag: Right now you get 10 points for picking up the flag and -10 for dropping it. I would propose - 8 for dropping the flag. That way a player will net 2 points for keeping the intel "alive". Since many times players will sacrafice themselves just to touch the intel so that it does not return to the intel room.


So, how do people feel about these proposed changes to the stats ?

Discuss.

[John Doe]

I try to not play for the stats, I play for fun.

But I will admit to being a bit of a statwhore and getting annoyed when I loose massive points to a noob

Just get out there, have fun and dont worry about the stats. Kill your friends I say, its more fun that way.

[abiscuit]

Generally I play to have fun first and worry about stats second, but I'll share my opinion anyway.

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Kill reward I'm on the fence about. I do sympathize with you about losing a lot of points for one kill, as I have around 5200 myself. Though at the same time, someone trying to crawl up the ladder for killing a higher ranked player may not feel like they're getting anywhere. One idea I thought of was to lower the cap for kill points, but increase the point value for a domination depending on the rank of the player.

Agreed on Destructions, but just for Sentry Guns. Teleporters and Dispensers shouldn't give a ton of points.

I think the entire team gets 5 points for a captured point.

I have no opinion on blocked capture right now.

Assists I'm iffy on. It not only increases medic scores, but it increases every class's score.

Melee kills get an x2 multiplier, except the spy's knife which gets x1.5. The multiplier's shown in your stats. Each weapon has a multiplier. Weapons that are easy to kill with or don't put you in much danger will have a low multiplier compared to a melee weapon which is dangerous to use in the heat of combat.

I'm in agreement with the flag drop penalty.

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[YevGenie]

Oh jeez. There have been a few threads on the matter and I try to post on all of them :-p

I agree with tweaking the points per kill of a better player downward. It is UBER frustrating to get on a server and get ganked for over a hundred points while still maintaining a great K/D ration just because they get 10-20 per kill. I'm not so mad when its around 5 or 10, but when it reached around 15 and above, I end up getting frustrated. I'm not big on the "points" in general, but my goal every "reset cycle" is to be in the top 50 on the server...basically on the first page at all time :-p

I would favor a lower cap than 25, 15 or 20 would be better, and raising the kills of sentries would be nice too maybe, just by a point or two.

But Dog knows what he's doing and im sure this is not the first time he's heard suggestions, he keeps tweaking it for the better methinks we'll eventually get it perfect...or as perfect as you can make it and make most people happy :-p

[TheCarpe]

The kill reward system is meant to balance the good players and the not-as-good players. DeathStryker only gets 2 points for killing me because, as high up the rank as he is, killing someone of my rank isn't a big deal. But when I kill him, it's a real accomplishment, and that is why so many points are awarded. If you don't like losing points, then try harder not to die

Though I agree that destructions should be worth more and, if possible, with increasing values based on Sentry level.

I believe the entire team gets the bonus, not the actual players who capped. It's a team reward, so it won't show up in your stats (like map wins)

Assists are fine, after all, they didn't get the kill. I'm aware that an assist can range from a Soldier doing 299 damage to a Heavy and then a Pyro killing him at long range with his shotgun, to the same Pyro shooting the Heavy from long range for 3 damage while the Soldier does all the dirty work. But whatever the situation, the killing blow is what counts. Whoever contributed gets a little reward for it. As for the Medics, I think being able to be on the top of the scoreboard with not a single kill to their name is reward enough

The melee kill modifier used to be 3.0, but as of the last stat reset, it was lowered to 2.0. Not only that, but melee is common, and some classes are better at it. Pyros, Soldiers, and Snipers might benefit from the reward, but Heavies, Medics, and Engineers might not get them as much, so that seems to make it kind of unbalanced. Not only that, but if extra points were awarded for melee kills, I'd be #1 ranked on the servers

[mr_s]

ok...

they say there is a point modifier for melee, usually 3x more points, but nothng ever happens


and as for sentry kills... it should definately be raised to 5 or more..


PS: Winston Churchill ones said you cannot please everyone... guess what? He waas right

[Barrel Bomber]

i think the point max should be loewered...cause ull be fightni some guy about ur skill then kill him and have like no HP then snome point newb comes and jacks 25 points from u for a rocket kill...kinda makes me frusterated....and the random kills....people will be shooting at the doorway just cause then u run out and get hi with a crit rocket...byebye 25 points

and is it posible to get more points as the SG upgrades....so if u destroyed a lev1 SG u get like 2 the lev2 3 then lev3 4 or somethin like that

and what happened to the HS bonus...now im sittin in no-pointville cause i get like 10 points for HS 1st place

thats all i think should be changed

[YevGenie]

Yea Bomber, when have you ever lost 25 points???

[EzCrash]

Most of my ideas were just that. Figured I'd throw them out there and see how people felt about them. The main 2 issues I really, really would like evaluated are:

Decrease kill reward cap from 25 pts: This is my biggest point of frustration as well as many I am sure who are in the top 100 or so. It is so frustrating to be killed by someone and lose 25 points just because that player just got over the 150 kill mark. I was playing last night and had 4 players take huge chunks of points from me ( 16, 18, 22 and 25 points per kill ). I don't understand the point of rewarding a player 25 points for killing one of the top players. I ask that we are given a flat 5 points per kill ( -5 for death ). Or at least a compromise .... lower the max reward from 25 pts. down to something around 10 - 15.

Increase points for destruction: 1 point per destruction seems way too low. Especially taking down a tier 3 sentry! I propose 5 points per destruction or at least 3 points. What would even be better is to reward based on what is destroyed. In that case ... 2 points for destroyed teleporter, 3 points for a dispenser and 5 points for a sentry.


please please please

[mr_s]

Here's what I predict'll happen...

Dog comes in...

Posts NO!!

locks teh thread

[Zman]

I think what the stats are now should stay i think it works pretty well

[Dog]

Well we try to come up with a point system that suits everyone and so I'm quite happy to listen to peoples' suggestions and ideas. Your ideas EZ, are great but let me explain issues with some of them...

Decrease kill reward cap from 25 pts: ...

25 points is the standard for HLStatsX. Most installations (and HLStats before that) use this figure as a max points. Could be worse. We could remove it completely and then people would get the true pts for killing you. I've played on some sites where the cap is 150.

The point is this. It's wonderful being in the top 100 of a table of stats, but there is a price to pay. People lower down the stats need to feel (as my learned friend Carpe said) that there is something worth fighting for. So they get more points for killing you. But as they work their way up through the table those points decrease. Lowering the cap would mean that people wouldn't get up through the table as quickly.

Solution: We could raise the number of minimum kills to 200 so only regulars get points.

Increase points for destruction: ....

OK. I'll look at this and give it some more thought.

Add points for capturing a Capture Point: ...

Again, I can have a look at this.....

Increase points blocked capture: At this time we get 5 points for this. I propose 10 points for it as it is a vital part of game play. I can't tell you how many times I have rushed in to stand on the point with several enemies on the point, knowing full well that I will die for it, but trying to buy a few extra seconds for back up to arrive.

This one is open to abuse. There are folk out there who will happily abuse the system.
Two friends on opposite teams stand on the point. They move on and off, awarding the defender "10pts" each time. By only awarding 5 pts we decrease the effects of abuse.

Increase assist points: I propose a bump from 2 points to 3 points for an assist. This would most benefit Medics who already play a selfless class and they are my heroes !

If you check the stats. Kill Assists are the most common Action statistic by far.
Increase the points and you're giving away free points. I raised the Uber to give Medics an incentive instead....

Bonus points for melee kill: I am not sure if this is possible but along with the regular points one gets for killing another player, is it possible to reward bonus points for a melee kill ? If so I think it would be cool for a bonus of 3 points for a melee kill ( excluding the spy melee kill ).

Already happens.
Check out the weapon multipliers:
http://www.theville.org/hlstatsx/hlstats.php?mode=help

Lower the penalty for dropping the flag: Right now you get 10 points for picking up the flag and -10 for dropping it. I would propose - 8 for dropping the flag. That way a player will net 2 points for keeping the intel "alive". Since many times players will sacrafice themselves just to touch the intel so that it does not return to the intel room.

Again open to major abuse. But let me look at it.

[YevGenie]

Dog's so nice...I bet he farts roses...

[Stevo]

The stats were designed this way to make it increasingly difficult as you move up the ladder and maintain your rank. It is more of an accomplishment for a low ranked player to kill someone of a high rank than it is for the high ranked player to kill the low ranked player. Also, as a high ranked player, it should be easier to avoid being killed by lower ranked player. Of course this doesn't take into account lucky shots and other factors such as a low ranked player finishing the work of someone else. The stats will always have some flaws, but they are only there for fun and they don't need to be 100% accurate...

[Element]

I do agree that even though the stats system is made out to give an accomplishment for lower ranked players, this is a team based game and a lot of kills usually come from rocket or pipe bomb spamming and it usually doesn't mean anything that the lower ranked player killed the higher ranked player except that he simply happened to have hit the other person at some point. Now if it was one on one and the lower ranked player killed the other guy, I'd say he deserves to get the points.

Honestly, I don't really see a solution for this. I'm pretty sure there's no way to set it so that the computer knows it was a lucky hit and award less points.

And really, I don't see this too much on theville servers because most people on these servers are regulars. However, I'm also getting points on a newer server where both teams will literally all be brand new to the server. On these servers I need to have a k/d ratio of at least 12/1 to actually get any points. That's what really frustrates me.