TheVille

As a medic, I generally avoid healing spies (especially those calling for Medic) since a) I don't want to blow your cover and b) I hate healing someone who then tries to turn and kill me.

My question is: when do I heal a spy who is on my team? Do I just wait until we can't be seen by the other team? is it bad to overheal a spy? Can the other team see that he is overhealed?

The other thing I was wondering was when I play engi is it harder to back stab me if I'm up on my dispenser in the corner? What is the hardest setup for a spy to take out? (I try to spread my stuff out a bit so that you can't get all my gear in one pass)

If you are sure that it's your Spy, heal them up. Back in the day, Spies defaulted to only showing player health within a particular band, so overhealing yours was very helpful to make their disguises better. These days, disguised Spies will show a broader range of health values, so it won't be that obvious. The healing particles should disappear when your Spy disguises.

As far as when to do it... if the friendly Spy is disguised as another player on your team (usually when they're using the Dead Ringer and not behind enemy lines yet), heal them in the open. It'll add to the confusion.

Setting up in the corner can prevent backstabs, but creates a spam trap. Also, Spies may still be able to jump onto your head and stab you from there. If you are in a room with a low ceiling, that won't happen, but that would mean that you're in an even tighter spam trap.

Why wouldn't you heal your spies? They are people too! Except for Daryldime...

When I play as a medic, I will try to keep the WHOLE team healed up. I tend to heal those in front of me during a push and spread the heals around so the whole team benefits. If someone is yelling "medic" and retreating behind me, I usually let the other medic get them and continue to push. I do treat our spies with a little care though while healing. When out of sight of the enemy team, I heal the spy as much as I can. If I see that our spy is disguised as an opposing team member, I will stop healing when I think the spy might be viewed by the enemy team. But by all means, make sure that the spy is healed/buffed as much as possible. Doesn't matter if they are using the Dead Ringer or not. It's a good habit to make sure the entire team is in good health. Again, unless it's Daryldime, then just let him fend for himself...

And with the addition of the new medi-flame gun, you can do your own spy checking!

The only time not to heal a spy is when they are both visible to the enemy and in disguise. Overheal particles no longer show up when disguised, and so long as it isn't blowing their cover, they will definitely appreciate it. About half of my spy deaths occur from completely random/lucky/spam shots by people with no idea I'm even there - being overhealed before attempting to move in will make a spy's life much easier.

As for engineer defense positions against spies, the best position is one where they cannot get behind you, and cannot get above you. Really though, if a spy wants to take you out, there is no one position that will protect you. You need to be aware, and be looking behind your back constantly - as in between every swing of the wrench. It's quite possible to simply hold M1 to build, and do a complete 180 backward and forward between each wrench hit. As an engy, you should be constantly moving around and checking your back unless you are actively turtling your gun against a heavy or something - never sit still. A spot with no way to get above or behind can buy you the couple seconds you need to do a turtle, but if you just sit there otherwise, you're going to get spied. If nothing else, they'll just sap your gun and shoot you in the face.

Spreading your gear out is good defense against demos, but bad against spies. Spies love it when an engy spreads out his gear, because it means the engy can't knock all your sappers off when you do a run. If all the gear is within reach of a single position, the engineer can call/kill the spy, and still save all the gear - basically, it forces the spy to deal with the engy before sapping. When it's spread out, spies can laugh there way through a series of trolling runs, sapping everything and dancing away while the engy desperately tries (and fails) to save it. That also means the engy is more likely to have to break cover and get killed by other attackers.

The real trick is to use Kritz on an Enforcer Spy.

Bronze Fox wrote:The real trick is to use Kritz on an Enforcer Spy.

It doesn't matter how high up you are to get backstabbed I think. As long as the strike comes against the back plane of your character model it is considered backstab, even if it is your achilles heel that they stab. As a spy you can still jump and stab. If you want a true harder target then stand on top of your level 3 sentry, it has a wider base and is taller.

One_Medic_Army wrote:

Bronze Fox wrote:The real trick is to use Kritz on an Enforcer Spy.

Oh man, I got Kritzed on Warpath last night; it was amazing. I pretty much went Super Saiyan 2.
Using the Enforcer was Super Saiyan 1 of course.

Bronze Fox wrote:The real trick is to use Kritz on an Enforcer Spy.

My only real tips from a spy's perspective.

If you are not sure if it is your spy or not, melee him....or heal but run into him and if you bump him, melee him.

To avoid being backstabbed, constantly move around. If you are still, a spy will figure some way to stab you. I hate when I cannot kill an engy and gun at the same time because they are seperated from each other.

Following Check's advice.

When I play combat engineer, I always want to force the enemy to choose to kill either me or my sentry. You never want to give them the chance to kill both.

The same applies for normal engineer, make sure the spy has to choose between stabbing you or sapping your sentry. I'd say always maintain a line of sight from you to your sentry and you should be fine most of the time.

Bronze Fox wrote:The real trick is to use Kritz on an Enforcer Spy.

But I can't aim at all!

darklin0 wrote:

Bronze Fox wrote:The real trick is to use Kritz on an Enforcer Spy.

But I can't aim at all!

Yea that would be the first thing to work on

darklin0 wrote:

Bronze Fox wrote:The real trick is to use Kritz on an Enforcer Spy.

But I can't aim at all!

Hitscan is simple. Just have your cursor (Preferably a dot) on the enemy when you fire.
And because of crits you don't have to worry about damage falloff.

The Spanish Inquisition wrote:It doesn't matter how high up you are to get backstabbed I think. As long as the strike comes against the back plane of your character model it is considered backstab, even if it is your achilles heel that they stab. As a spy you can still jump and stab. If you want a true harder target then stand on top of your level 3 sentry, it has a wider base and is taller.

Didn't know that. I've seen engis on top of their gear and figured it was protecting them from splash damage on the floor and made it so that a spy can't get them.

There aren't too many times when I turtle behind my gun getting healed by my dispenser, so I generally put the dispenser somewhere so that others can get healed/ammo safely and the gun where it can protect/attack. I find that spacing things out helps give me a sense of where the spy is as opposed to a general "all my stuff has been hit, he's around here somewhere"

As much as I try to heal my entire team, healing an enemy spy is one of the worst feelings as a medic. I also hate to blow a spy's cover by healing them and getting them killed. I get nervous any time someone on my team is running at me yelling for a medic and I do tend to do the bump and heal when I can.

One of the best ubers I ever had was an uber spy. Sapped all the gear quickly, stabbed a few people, he cloaked and I ran before the uber ran out. Great fun!

Bronze Fox wrote:

One_Medic_Army wrote:

Bronze Fox wrote:The real trick is to use Kritz on an Enforcer Spy.

Oh man, I got Kritzed on Warpath last night; it was amazing. I pretty much went Super Saiyan 2.
Using the Enforcer was Super Saiyan 1 of course.

Haha, I was the silly medic to drop those on you. I like Kritzing Enforcer spies because I don't have to worry about deflection from Pyros and you can 1 shot drop anyone below 150~ health.