Spawn camping

[DeafOfficeWorker]

From the Ville's posted server rules:

"2. Spawn camping is not allowed
While it may be fun for you to sit outside enemy spawn and shoot/nade in, it isn't fun for the other players trying to get out of spawn..
If you find yourself around enemy spawn, either capture the target or move on."

I would also remind everyone that rule #1 is "Respect your fellow players."

To me, the rule is clear and unambiguous. Be advised.

[Plinko]

I dunno, is a demo stickying blue's exit doors on gravel pit spawn camping? It happens a third or more of the games I play on that map. The doors are blind, but there are two exits (though two demos could do both doors). How about an engy building a sentry just outside one of them - seen that more than once, too.

How about spies sitting outside the spawn doors on Cube_Valley, backstabbing people when they exit?

I believe as a pyro heading back to a spawn area (such as dustbowl) is not spawn camping, especially offensively. You're pushing/keeping the defenders back so your team can cap the point/set up their defenses. Plus, there are limits on health/ammo/range that mean you can't 'camp' you can only keep the fight there for a short while before you run out of ammo or die. Demos are different, they can set and blow things up from a distance, getting more ammo as needed without conceding the spot.

[DeafOfficeWorker]

It's understood that on the beginning of a level, players start the battle at the gates (which is not the spawn door btw) on attack/defend maps. That's not the issue.

Continuing to hang around an enemy spawn room is spawn camping.

Like I said, it's situational. If I feel like someone is spawn camping, they're going to get a warning. If they ignore the warning, they're going to get kicked. If I have warned someone in the past, they run the risk of getting banned.

[Reipin]

DoW I have a couple of questions for you then, and it is map specific.

On Steel specifically, the spawn to almost any point is a single door. Sometimes you can take another door that leads to a longer more circuitous route, but for the most part it is a single door (this problem existed with Happycow at first also).

Anyway, sometimes I and others go "offensive" engineer. I assume you have played Steel so I will just lay it out.

On point A, on offense, is it ok to build a sentry on the ledge overlooking A in the heat of battle? Keep in mind we have reduced spawn times on the ville and a sentry going up can be taken down by a pistol before it is even built. The sentry, once it is up, will cover both the A point and the hallway from which the defense comes out of. It provides cover for the offense to cap A while the defense deals with the previously ignored sentry. Again, it is placed in the heat of battle at the very place the battle is taking place and has a direct need/influence for the offense. It has nothing to do with padding stats by secretly building it far away from the action to catch people as they traverse a distance to get back to the action.

My second example is also on Steel (this is just the way the map is ). On Steel, two points are always active. One of them is always E, which is capped, ends the game with an offense win. This is the single most important point in Steel for that obvious reason.

I have, more then once now, gone to E with another engineer to find that the defense has left this point completely ignored and abandoned. Normally the defense sets up the sentry right outside their spawn door because it covers the two entrances to E from A and B and allows the defense to run back in for unlimited metal and health. When there is no defense there I have my team build a sentry in that spot (in front of the E 'spawn" doors) and another one overlooking point E from the B entrance. The two sentries cover each other and protect each other. People can still attack people capping on E from the sniper roost and can also exit B unmolested but wil of course run into the sentry when they get to E.

Is this spawncamping? I have set up a defense for my offense at point E since the defense didn't want to. Point E is very big and wide and setting up the sentries in other places around the point make it useless as the sentries won't reach attackers and will just get blown up from out of range. The point where I set up the sentries is definitely central to the game and plays the most important role in the game. I'm not doing it for stat padding, I am doing it to win and using the sentries as a defense.

Offense can use the same strat later in the game to protect the point making it an easy win (if they can get the sentry set up).

Please let me know as I consider all of these valid strats on Steel.

Thanks

[DeafOfficeWorker]

Without splitting hairs over an infinite amount of "what if" questions, let me say this:

If you are attempting to capture a point, I can't see anything wrong with it. Another example would be the cap point on dustbowl which is right next to the spawn. Having said that, I'm aware some players have told their team to "don't cap the point yet" to allow more kills off the spawn. I'll ban whomever I catch doing that type of crap.

If you find yourself at the spawn by chasing an enemy or whatever, it's not a big deal if you defend yourself from players exiting the spawn. Just don't hang around. Additionally, I know engineers drop teleport entrances right outside of the spawn doors. It's perfectly fine for a spy to sap those etc.

If you're spending a lot of time by the enemies spawn, and it appears to me that you're just doing it for the kills, you're risking the possibility of a ban.

[Cpt. Winky]

I would like to apologize ahead of time. Its not really spawn camping, but I usually build teles behind enemy lines and shuffle my team through right by their spawn, so prolly alot of spawn kills happen. if that happens, it usually my fault.

[Reipin]

[quote="DeafOfficeWorker";p="115684"]
Having said that, I'm aware some players have told their team to "don't cap the point yet" to allow more kills off the spawn.[/quote]

LOL, that's some sad stuff right there.

You'll never hear me say that as I prefer wins over K/D ratio. I'll blindly keep sapping a sentry and dying if it is what is needed to win a round.

[Cpt. Winky]

[quote="Reipin";p="115690"][quote="DeafOfficeWorker";p="115684"]
Having said that, I'm aware some players have told their team to "don't cap the point yet" to allow more kills off the spawn.[/quote]

LOL, that's some sad stuff right there.

You'll never hear me say that as I prefer wins over K/D ratio. I'll blindly keep sapping a sentry and dying if it is what is needed to win a round.[/quote]

Lol same, i think in 1 life, the same engie killed my sapper at least 12 times. he must have been so annoyed.

[Torven]

The other team not taking precautions against you spawncamping is never an reason to spawncamp. Putting a gun aimed directly into a spawn door like that was completely inexcusable, and I am extremely disappointed that someone from one of our guilds would go to such lengths to try to win a map.

[Rigges]

There have been times when I have fought and chased a opponent back to the doors and then caught a new spawn coming out the door then have Troven shout at me. You are camping the spawn.

Bawww so some times with or with out Trovens Voice saying your spawn camping I will stop and let the other team kill me off then I am not spawn camping.

Now I play on another server on a map called Mario kart and I hate it when they spawn camp there as it's fast reload extra ammo more health and when the other team is in the spawn they are so venerable. I refuse to spawn camp. Some times I go to the other team to help them get out of being spawn camped.
because in Mario Kart an engi can build 5 sentries and 5 Dispensers so its death with a solder and heavy firing continuously at the door with 5 sentries and 5 dispensers out side the doors.

Yes Troven I am with you on not Camping the spawn and making the game hard for the other team to play killing the server.........

Rigges

PS its not Trovens reminder to me to back off I do not mind this and I will back off I have no problem it's that little extra thing he always says like I am a 4 year old that bugs the poop out of me. Troven I love ya man but Please just tell me to back off if I am up there to tight in a spawn Like camp I and others just get carried away some times I am not an evil kill them all till they all leave the server type player.

Just say hey Rigges back off and I will No worries mate... oops stole Mr.S's line LOL

[Reipin]

Torven, I asked DoW.

I already know how you feel. I'm sorry you are so angry with it but my post explains why it was put there. It wasn't spawncamping because it had a clear purpose in a very important and active part of the map.

Put anywhere else and the sentry is useless as it can't fire up to the elevated platform from which you exit and if I put it out of range from the door, well what good is a sentry that is out of range of its attackers.

You know I would never put a sentry near a spawn just to get kills. It had a real purpose.

If you refuse to see that and can't understand it then that's fine, there is nothing I can do about it.

Switching teams to unbalance a game because one person does something you don't like is something you should reconsider as well, but I've been over that with you as well. You refuse to see the fact that you are hurting the other 10 people on the team just because you are unhappy with one.

Last night you refused to heal me in game because of the sentry and that's that. It's not like we haven't teamed up 100's of times in the last few months and I've never even remotely suggested spawn camping when we are going on a rampage. It's not like I suggest people to lay off spawns or willingly retreat from a spawn right?

If you'd like to continue the conversation please feel free to PM me.

[Plinko]

[quote="DeafOfficeWorker";p="115684"]
Having said that, I'm aware some players have told their team to "don't cap the point yet" to allow more kills off the spawn. I'll ban whomever I catch doing that type of crap.
[/quote]

Totally agree with that.

I think there's confusion because I (and I assume many others) rarely see anyone warned for spawn camping, but see behavior some people (not necessarily Admins) in this thread have called out as spawn camping - so knowing what is OK is tough.

[Cpt. Winky]

I think that getting 1 or 2 spawn kills in a life is ok. If I get stuck at a spawn, im not gonna let myself get killed just to avoid spawn killing, im gonna fight my way out. The problem becomes when you ignore the objective to spawn kill.

[Reipin]

Plinko, the circumstances I use for my judgement are as follows: Is it in the immediate vicinity of the current objective? Will/are people going to be shooting out of these doors, using them as a shield for defense of the current objective?

I use those as my loose definition. It helps a lot since I play on the customs server where some maps have less then ideal defense spawns.

If killing someone coming out of a spawn door serves no other purpose then to pad stats or to make you laugh cause you think it's hilarious, you probably shouldn't be doing it.

[LJ]

A lot of people (even regulars) try to get away with a little bit of spawn camping. There's going to the spawn to destroy teleports. Which is fine. But, a lot of times that person will hang around just a little bit longer so they can kill some people that come out.