4/28 Update

[Boss Llama]

Another Pyro nerf?

F you too Valve, F you too.


As for the rest of the stuff, some good, some bad, but seriously, reducing both the pyro's damage and afterburn time? WTF do they think a flamethrower is, a cigarette lighter? Nuts to that.

[Gearloose]

I do have to agree about the Pyro nerf being bad. I'd support a slightly narrower flame spread with slightly increased damage though - to make it harder for them to find cloaked spies. The previous burn time was better too.

[Flobee]

Interesting...I look forward to testing things out later...maybe on Freight on TV2 OH WAIT</SADFACE>

[Guardian]

I don't know if it was a pyro nerf as much as a pyro change (or a nerf/buff), those airblast changes are massive.

You can reflect as fast as a soldier fires his rockets, they automatically do 115-130 damage on direct his due to mini-crits and you can do it more often thanks to it taking up less ammo. That's a pretty big buff.

And in exchange let's look up the DPS changes I found:

At 150 DPS
Scout/Engie/Sniper/Spy (125HP) - 0.8s
Medic/eyeDemo (150) - 1s
Pyro/Sticky Demoman (175HP) 1.5s
Heavy/Demoknight (300HP) 2s

At 120 DPS
Scout/Engie/Sniper/Spy (125HP) - 1.1s
Medic/eyeDemo (150) - 1.3s
Pyro/Sticky Demoman (175HP) - 1.8s
Heavy/Demoknight (300HP) 2.5s

Your sacrificing 0.3-0.5 of a second, not to mention the shotgun and other tools are unaffected.

Seems like a fair trade to me.

[Boss Llama]

The ability to maybe reflect a second rocket, if one is there, at a slightly faster rate than previously, assuming you have the skill to do so, and the server isn't laggy enough to make it impractical, does not make up for losing 20% of direct damage, as well as 40% of the afterburn that is so vital to the class being worth spit. Airblast is a fun ability, and it is powerful, but the Pyro is hardly a pyro anymore, the fire has next to nothing to do with why you put one on your team. A pyro has to be stupid or desperate to airblast people in one-on-one combat, unless there is a wall directly behind them, because the flamethrower's range was shortened so severely in a previous nerf that even a single airblast in the open will put a person far enough away that you can't hit them. The airblast doesn't need to be altered, and this increased focus on it is absurd. Valve is doing its level best to make the class worthless except to interupt ubers (which thanks to the heavy's now increased rev up speed, will be even harder), and occasionally light a spy on fire, though with the decreased damage and burn time, that won't do much good anymore either.

[Clay Pigeon]

[quote="Guardian";p="238627"]I don't know if it was a pyro nerf as much as a pyro change (or a nerf/buff), those airblast changes are massive.

You can reflect as fast as a soldier fires his rockets, they automatically do 115-130 damage on direct his due to mini-crits and you can do it more often thanks to it taking up less ammo. That's a pretty big buff.

And in exchange let's look up the DPS changes I found:

At 150 DPS
Scout/Engie/Sniper/Spy (125HP) - 0.8s
Medic/eyeDemo (150) - 1s
Pyro/Sticky Demoman (175HP) 1.5s
Heavy/Demoknight (300HP) 2s

At 120 DPS
Scout/Engie/Sniper/Spy (125HP) - 1.1s
Medic/eyeDemo (150) - 1.3s
Pyro/Sticky Demoman (175HP) - 1.8s
Heavy/Demoknight (300HP) 2.5s

Your sacrificing 0.3-0.5 of a second, not to mention the shotgun and other tools are unaffected.

Seems like a fair trade to me.[/quote]

OH YEAH!

Not all pyros use the default flamer at all times.

This change may have only been a small nerf to default flamer-using pyros, but it was a 20%+ nerf to afterburner pyros.

[Ironwolf]

my Spy hearth rejoices a the pyro nerf =P.

[somedude]

I just don't get these pyro changes. The whole idea valve had stated for the pyro was an ambush class, with these changes this is no longer the case. I don't know why they didn't implement this as a third flamethrower with these characteristics?!

[Fraulein Arztin]

I feel bad for those regular pyro players. Yes, you to somedude.

[ShadyJane]

Whoa whoa whoa…this isn’t the Engineer update!!!!

But I am loving the two heavy buffs.

Also, I’m really not too worried about the pyro, the damage they do at point blank is so great that they will still kill most classes in a second or two. I can’t tell you how many times a pyro has touched me with flames, airblasted me into a corner and axetinguished me down. It’s SUPER EFFECTIVE.

[Bronze Fox]

[quote="Cpt._Keyes";p="238615"][quote="Bronze Fox";p="238597"][quote="Fraulein Arzt";p="238581"][quote="Bronze Fox";p="238574"]If only I could play. . .[/quote]
Play as soon as possible!!![/quote]

It's all on the phone company now.[/quote]


the phone company?! people still use phone companies?![/quote]

Uh, it's what we're getting our internet through.

So, yes.

[Flaming Cheese Wheel]

The Heavy buff re: spin time helped out considerably; you can almost get away with not using the shotgun while running quickly from place to place.

Taking away so much of the Pyro's fire damage just destroys the class though. "Ignite enemies and leave them to die from the afterburn?" Unless you've pretty much sat around to kill them to death, the afterburn hardly seems to kill anyone anymore. And the class isn't the "Deflector Shield" or the "Shotgun" class. Pyros make people BURN.

Also, attacking sentry nests is almost suicidal. The Engy takes longer to die, the sentry takes longer to die, switching to the Homewrecker means an extra second of knockback...

It's like the TFC Pyro, or "Laugh at that guy."

[Rigges]

agree with all my fellow pyros out there the nurf is intolerable

YEa well I am Pissed over the Pyro Nurf to the flame thrower is intolerable.
Its hard enough to kill Spy's with the dead ringer now its Imposable unless some one else has wounded him,
Demo men with Targe are inpunable to Pyros now Unless wounded,
Medics run to fast so our only help was to get them on fire an let the after burn work and hope they did not get to a medi kit or start healing another team member not now they go out to soon to cause any real damage forget it you can hardly kill a medic now,
Solies we use to set a blaze then air blast them to death that aint happening fire goes out to soon so air blasting them around is supurfalass as they shoot at your feet and the rocket is too close to air blast back and you take the splash damage.
Scouts same as medi they run too fast they can now run till out then hit a medi kit or get a medic to heal them.
then the Heavy OMG with the extra fast spin up crap pyros are slathered.
Only good thing it is less likely to get killed from another pyro as the fire goes out faster than its started.

I am depressed I can't play this way the game is ruined for me.................

I'll go to my corner and pout.

I think me and some dude will go drink B33r for a while and Lite spy's cigarettes cause that's all we can lite any more.


=-=-=-=-=

[Gizanked]

[quote="somedude";p="238635"]I just don't get these pyro changes. The whole idea valve had stated for the pyro was an ambush class, with these changes this is no longer the case. I don't know why they didn't implement this as a third flamethrower with these characteristics?![/quote]

i would have thought someone that loves the airblast as much as you do would absolutely revel in this change. heck... mini crits on every reflect??? that sounds op to me.

[TheCarpe]

My fellow Pyros, do not despair! This is not the end of our beloved class.

Let's look at things a little closer.

Formerly at point blank range, the flamer did 6 to 8 damage per particle (135-180/sec). We've lost 20%, so that brings us down to a range of about 108-144 damage per second. That is still killing most of the classes in the game in one second, and the beefier ones in two. Afterburn has been reduced, but that's almost a non-issue since everything puts fire out now.

Let's compare that to what we're GETTING.

Our airblast can now be used ten times from full ammo. That's ten fires extinguished, ten crit rockets returned to sender, plenty of time to completely ruin an uber with ammo to spare when the invuln is over.

EVERYTHING we reflect is now a mini-crit. This is bigger than you realize.

Take a look at the Mini-crit damage:

Rocket: 122
Direct Hit: 151
Pipe: 162

Those are big numbers. Enough to kill or severely wound most classes (Including those oh-so-fragile Medics) with ONE reflected projectile. Rocket and Nade spammers be warned. Pyro's who could reflect were once something of a nuisance, now they are a legitimately dangerous and powerful foe.

Our class is far from useless, it is simply changed from what it once was. It was originally a very single purpose class, he's so much more versatile now. The Flamethrower, while weaker, will not cause anyone to shrug off it's damage. It will still melt people quite effectively. An efficiently used Uber will still be able to decimate a Sentry nest if he can reach it. For such flame-resistant enemies as Targe Demos, use your shotgun and axe. No class should rely on one weapon for all situations. Our more advanced tactics, such as Uber blocking and projectile reflecting, are now much more effective and deadly.

It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change. ~Charles Darwin

Change has indeed come, but we will be fine. Flame on, my rubber-suited friends.